Description:
In this episode, Masey talks about her emotions when she found out she was pregnant unexpectedly, what it was like choosing her provider and birthing location, in addition to sharing in-depth details about her mentality while giving birth and how she was dealing with postpartum psychosis and bipolar disorder.
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.
Resources:
- Masey Blakemore- Instagram: @ _mama_mase
- Shannon Smith: Birth Passion Midwifery
- Rebecca Ellisor-Hypnobirthing Course: Born in Ecstacy
- Freebirth Society Podcast: https://www.freebirthsociety.com/podcast
- Doing It At Home Podcast: https://diahpodcast.com/
- The Radical Birth Keeper School: https://www.freebirthsocietycourses.com/radicalbirthkeeper
Definitions:
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Transcription of Episode 35:
Kiona: 0:09
Hello, and welcome to Birth As We Know It. I am your podcast host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, and as a mother of three amazing children with my husband and high school sweetheart by my side. After attending over 130 births, including my own, I’ve realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me every week as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of the stories can be triggering to hear, so feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you’re ready. With that said, let’s prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space. As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. Before diving into this episode today, I wanted to share with you all the very first review I ever received. This review is from Emran987654321. The title is informative and soothing with a rating of five stars. It says,”congratulations on your first episode, I loved listening to Kavina’s birthing story. You have such a soothing voice to your storytelling. It is so informative and conversational at the same time. I am looking forward to hearing more stories. Your killing it in all caps and followed by three heart emojis So thank you so much Emran987654321 I truly appreciate your review, especially being my first review. It’s always amazing getting feedback and seeing how these stories are impacting those that listen. So thank you so much I truly appreciate it. All right, let’s get into the episode. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. Today I am interviewing Macy Blakemore, who is the mother of a five and a half year old at the moment, and she is a student of authentic midwifery as well as a lover of philosophy and identifies as a wonderer and wanderer. So welcome, Masey.
Masey: 2:37
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.
Kiona: 2:41
Yeah, absolutely. I am super excited to have you on as well. And we will be talking about the birth of your little one but before we dive into that, why don’t you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and who’s in your family?
Masey: 2:54
Yeah, so I am a 32 year old mama living in San Diego, California. I’ve been here, I say since 2010 because that’s when I originally moved here from the Pacific Northwest. I went to school here. I met my ex husband here, got married, we got pregnant with my daughter, and then I moved back home to Washington State to birth her. Not intentionally, but I birthed her there. And then, yeah, now I’ve been back for the last two years in San Diego. Really focusing on being there for my daughter as she starts kindergarten, but also am studying as an authentic midwife currently. So yeah,
Kiona: 3:40
That’s awesome. I love that. So, before we dive into, like, your pregnancy and your birth, let’s go ahead and dive in a little bit to your conception journey. Were you planning on conceiving?
Masey: 3:50
Yes and no, because I was married. And so I assumed at one point that I would get pregnant and I’d always had a desire to be a mom and knew that I would be a mom. But no, we actually got pregnant less than a year into marriage. And so it was very. Very unexpected. and I’d always had super irregular periods, so there wasn’t much tracking going on there. I came off of birth control in April, I believe, sometime in the spring, and then by the end of summer we were pregnant. and I actually didn’t find out I was pregnant until almost all the way through the first trimester.
Kiona: 4:28
Mm hmm.
Masey: 4:29
I thought everything was wrong with me. I was like, I’m having stomach issues and I can’t breathe. And… My mom was the one to finally say, uh, it looks like your stomach’s growing. Would you take a pregnancy test? And so she bought the pregnancy test, brought it home to where I was living with my parents at the time. And yeah, that’s how I found out about my daughter. I was about 13, 14 weeks along. So that was, that was a surprise.
Kiona: 4:57
Yeah. Yeah. And I would actually, I feel like that, that’s It’s more common than people talk about, you know, like just the uncertainty of actually being pregnant. Like when people aren’t intentionally trying to conceive, then you don’t really pay attention very much to like looking for early, early symptoms or anything like that unless you’re intentional about it sometimes. So yeah, and there’s other things, you know, a lot of people are like, Oh my God, I think I have the flu. Like I just don’t feel good. so yeah, yeah.
Masey: 5:30
and I think it was also not being tied into my menstrual cycle. I, like I said, I had a regular periods growing up. I’m not sure what the reason for that was maybe because I was an athlete, maybe because I wasn’t getting adequate nutrition. But that continued into my mid 20s. And so I think if I had been as connected as I am right now to my flow, it would have been very, very obvious, of course, because my cycle has a regular cadence to it. But without that, yeah, it was just like, Oh, I’m powering through not feeling well, um, which is something that, that we do as mothers and women. And, um, yeah,
Kiona: 6:12
Yeah. I feel like that’s definitely a regular occurrence of mom takes care of everybody when everybody else is sick. And then when mom is sick, she’s still taking care of herself. That kind of thing. So you just learn to push through and figure it out. So yeah, that, I can relate to that.
Masey: 6:31
Yeah.
Kiona: 6:32
so at that moment when you did find out you’re pregnant, what was going through your mind? It’s like, how did you feel?
Masey: 6:37
Well, truthfully, I was separated from my husband at the time, intentionally separated. Again, we’d only been married for less than a year and things weren’t going great for us. So I had actually moved from San Diego, where I was with him, back to Washington State with my parents, and just said that I needed a period of kind of reflection on the marriage and what was going on. And so I was with them and Yeah, obviously not expecting it at all. I hadn’t seen him in at least a month and a half. So, The day I found out I was working from home. And like I said, my mom had brought home the pregnancy test I actually just had it on the counter for like a week and I was like, I’m not taking this. I’m not pregnant And then on my lunch break, I went into my parents bathroom and just like haphazardly peed on this stick Probably the first time I had ever done so, honestly. Anyways, religious upbringing to thank. And, um, I pulled it up and I literally screamed and both my parents were home and they came running to the bathroom. And my dad, the jokester that he is was like, did you drop your makeup in the toilet? Like what’s going on? And then my mom, you know, opened the door and I told her and she gave me a big hug. And I remember her saying like, Well, I remember saying, I’m not ready. I kept that was my mantra. I’m not ready. I’m not ready. I’m not ready. And she looked at me and said, you’re ready, which I guess should have been comforting, but it wasn’t.
Kiona: 8:09
Right.
Masey: 8:11
And so then later in the day, I called my husband and I actually had a hard time getting ahold of him because he was at work and in a different state and. He was very reassuring as well. Like he, he said to me, we’ll do whatever you want to do. Like, this is your choice, but I had wanted him in my pregnancy hormones and like the separation and all that to be like, we’re going to make it work. We’ll be together. We’ll be a family. I’ll move up there immediately. Like which he did end up moving up. But yeah, I felt really alone. It was probably the most alone I’ve ever felt, even though I still had people that were around me supporting me, it was like, I’m now on this journey with just me and this baby that has for some reason wanted to enter me and trust me. And wow, I’m a mom already. And that feeling was very clear from the beginning. I was a mom from the very start.
Kiona: 9:07
Yeah.
Masey: 9:08
yeah.
Kiona: 9:09
Yeah. All of those emotions are, oh gosh. I hear you and I can relate to you on those, especially the one of not feeling ready because personally with my first, I was 19 when I found out and so it was like, oh crap, you know, like what are we going to do? but I also, I, I relate and I’m happy that you did have people around you that were trying to be reassuring and supportive. But it is hard. It’s a hard moment to kind of wrap your head around. So,
Masey: 9:40
Yeah. Yeah. Super lonely. not met with excitement. Yeah, and I think it took a while just to set in that it was real. I mean, that day I got an appointment at Care Net Pregnancy Center. I literally just went in and they did a vaginal ultrasound that day. And I kid you not, there was This human in there. It wasn’t a little seed. It wasn’t the little bean. It was a human with arms and legs. And I was like, I mean, it was the most shocking thing I’ve ever seen. Like, that’s really, that’s in there? Are we sure?
Kiona: 10:20
Right.
Masey: 10:22
and the immediacy of it, it’s like, just, she was there. And. They actually wrote, like, on one of the ultrasound print outs,”Hey, mom!” So I still have it to this day, just her. And it’s so, it’s so her personality. It’s so Selah’s personality. Like, yep, I’m here! Let’s do this! Like, let’s go! yeah, wow. I, I feel like I will remember that moment, like, laying on that table, getting that ultrasound, more than I will the birth, even. Cause it was almost like she was born that, that was the moment. Yeah, it brings tears to my eyes, it does. Yeah.
Kiona: 10:58
Yeah. Oh man. I can just like, as I’m looking at your face, I can just see like all of the emotions coming back and like you kind of reliving that moment, which is hard. You know, it’s like hard to relive and like hard to think about, but I love how you just said that that was kind of like the birth for you, like you would remember that more than the birth because it was that moment when you’re like, oh, this is happening. This is real. I’m about to have a baby.
Masey: 11:27
Yeah, like no turning back. And this is no commenting, this is not commenting on abortion or any of those choices. just for me, it was an immediate like, oh yeah, we’re doing this. And partly, again, that was Selah and her personality. She’s still the most extroverted mom, let’s go do this. Come on, mom. Just bringing me along for the ride. So yeah, very precious to me.
Kiona: 11:52
I love that. I love that so much. So, throughout your pregnancy, how were your emotions as you continued on? Like was it still, did you still feel really lonely, or did you kind of come to terms and like feel like you did have that support around you by the time you got to the end?
Masey: 12:11
gosh, there was so much journeying to the end. my ex husband did end up moving up from California. Bless his heart. Uh, he’s, he had never left California in all his 25 years of life. and we bought a house and we did the like”pretend to be a family” thing, even though, spoiler, the marriage didn’t work out. But, it was a lonely, it still was a lonely thing. We lived in a four bedroom home, and so we often felt like roommates. and the journey would become lonelier as I, er, eh. sounds negative more. I would have to dive deeper into myself because the choices that I made in my pregnancy and my birth were foreign from any choices that I had ever seen made around me in the circles. That I was in. and so, you know, the loneliness is partly self inflicted. but no, it was a very like, I am tuning in more and more to myself and who I am and the choices that I make and why I make them. And it was, it has been the catalyst for the rest of my life and taking radical self responsibility.
Kiona: 13:23
Mm. Mm. I actually really love that because hearing you say that makes it clear that you were very much birthed into a mother the moment you saw her on the screen. You know, like you, you were, moving mountains in yourself to make the decisions that you made. Because you’re like, even though people around me are making X and Y decision, I’m truly going to make the Z decision because that’s what’s good for me. And that’s what I believe will be good for her as well. So I, I love, I love that. And I hear as well that it was very hard to make a lot of those decisions, but you still pushed through and did what you felt was right.
Masey: 14:09
I wish I would have done more that was right for myself because if I had, I would have just left that marriage and I’m sorry if I continue to reference that and that’s not necessarily the place of this podcast, but the relationship was a big part. And I still made the choices that I wanted to make. I’m not blaming him or anyone, but I wish that I would have left sooner and made a different choice for my daughter and I.
Kiona: 14:34
I just want to say, please feel no need to apologize about referencing, like continuing to go back and referencing how you wish that you would have done different things and made different decisions. And the reason why I say please don’t apologize is that’s part of your journey of getting you where you are, you know, and if that’s what you feel is important to bring up and talk about, even though this is a birth podcast, that’s part of your journey, you know, of getting to where you are. So no need to apologize
Masey: 15:02
Yeah, because we’re birthing these babies, but we’re also, they’re birthing us,
Kiona: 15:06
Exactly.
Masey: 15:07
right? And so we’re becoming totally different, unrecognizable people in the aftermath. And I, I can look back and go, Ooh, I wish 25 year old, 26 year old Masey would have made a different choice. But that’s in, in such hindsight at this point, it’s in such hindsight and it’s, it was all faded and it was all perfect for that particular period of time in that moment. And I’m glad it happened the way that it did. Cause I have my daughter and I have me and I, I love me. So
Kiona: 15:39
Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. 100%. so let’s dive a little bit more into the details of your pregnancy. did you have a ton of symptoms after that first trimester or did you have any, health concerns or anything like that?
Masey: 15:56
Nope. Yeah, the first trimester was the worst of it, and I didn’t even know that it was going on. the second trimester was great. It was like the the fog was lifted. I was pregnant through the holidays for that and able to really return to anything I wanted to do, whether that was running or hiking or swimming. it was into the third trimester as I could feel my body really preparing to enter the portal that, that I, I felt, off again, I think the word would be, but no, I had, I didn’t have any, I didn’t really have any complications with the pregnancy.
Kiona: 16:35
Good, that’s awesome. You know, getting through that first hump and dealing with all the emotions that come with pregnancy anyways, and then to be able to still do your running and do your hiking, like, those, you know, kind of mind cleansing or soul healing things to help throughout the pregnancy is awesome. Yeah.
Masey: 16:53
Yeah. I, I hiked a lot cause I, like I said, I lived in the Pacific Northwest, specifically Olympia, Washington, and it was just so beautiful, so green and lush. And I can remember saying to my midwife at one point, do you think I can birth outside in the spring? Cause I gave birth to, birth to Selah in the beginning of May. And she was like, We’ll see if that’s what you want to do during labor. Did not end up wanting to do that. It was during the middle of the night, but that connection to nature was so strong during my pregnancy and just wanting to be alone in nature. And, yeah, that was one of the most magical parts of it, honestly.
Kiona: 17:36
Yeah, I love that. And I feel like that’s such a primal instinct, you know, to just be with nature, especially with how busy the world is around us. When you’re able and you have that calling to like go into nature and just be, I, I love that. I think that’s great.
Masey: 17:54
Yeah.
Kiona: 17:55
Yeah. Um, so I did hear you mention the word midwife. So I was wondering if you knew, like, once you found out you were pregnant, where you wanted to birth and how you wanted your birth to unfold.
Masey: 18:08
Yeah. So I found out I was pregnant in October. Actually, like, around this time. and my first instinct was to contact the birth house in Olympia. But I didn’t even end up going in. They let me know over the phone that they were already booked for my birth month, which was April at that point. I actually went a little overdue with my daughter and birthed her the second week of May, but I was due at the end of April. And they just said sorry, we don’t have any space here, but we can refer you to a birth center in Tacoma. So I did end up going up to that birth center and met with a midwife, but just kind of felt like, it would be too far to drive, should I be in labor. I knew that even though it was 30 minutes away, it could turn into an hour with traffic. And I really didn’t want to sit in the car. So at that point, I kind of rerouted back to the hospital, the local St. Pete’s, and I went in and visited the birthing center before I was even showing, I remember people being like, are you pregnant? It’s like, I’m pregnant anyways, it’s kind of funny to think back on, but I think I toured that alone. I don’t think my partner was with me and he wasn’t with me for the birth center. So it was just kind of me evaluating my options and the hospital was a big no for me. I always affiliated the hospital with sickness and death and I didn’t really want any part of that. And again, this isn’t a judgment. This is just my own opinion of the space and it was also in a basement. So there was no natural light, which was like, no, this is not happening. so then I think I must have circled back with the birth house and said, I’m not having any luck in my area. Do you have any, Home birth midwives, or maybe I just said other midwives. I don’t even think I was seeking out a home birth And that’s kind of how the story tells itself is that I, I really had no knowledge of, or even interest in home birth until the options narrowed and narrowed. and so I was connected with a home birth midwife in, kind of near the, the base, the, the army.
Kiona: 20:19
The joint base lewis mcchord base.
Masey: 20:21
yes. and so she was a military wife and had four kids of her own and then studied to be a medical midwife. And from the moment I met her, she felt like my second mother. I was like, yes, this is the woman. And so I didn’t even, it was, it was less that like I was having this home birth and excited about it. Then I was like. Oh, I want this woman to attend my birth.
Kiona: 20:43
Yeah.
Masey: 20:44
It was the provider for me.
Kiona: 20:46
Mm hmm.
Masey: 20:46
So, and she was, her name’s Shannon Smith, and her business is called Birth Passion Midwifery.
Kiona: 20:53
Mm.
Masey: 20:53
And actually, one of my childhood friends has since birthed with her at home as well, just this last summer. She’s very precious to me.
Kiona: 21:01
Oh, that’s awesome.
Masey: 21:03
Yeah.Kiona: 21:05
Oh, that’s such a journey just to find Who, who feels good to you, you know? And I think that’s important to mention is you don’t always have to go with the first person that provides the service, you know, and there are people that are out there in the world that aren’t super educated on the options that they have. And some people aren’t even really comfortable with saying no. And struggling to advocate for themselves, and you were like, yeah, I’m not going to birth in a basement, and I feel like Tacoma’s too far, so what are my other options here? So I, I like that you advocated for yourself, and just finding your person.
Masey: 21:45
Thank you. Yeah, she really was. And I should note here too that I was past 20 weeks when I found her and I don’t think I met with her until like 24, 25, so it’s never too late to switch providers and that’s what she said to me when I met her for the first time. Women switch into the final weeks of the birth process. so it’s never too late. It’s never too late to fire your provider that you don’t like. It’s never too late to walk away and find someone else that is supportive and that’s going to be the most integral, important part of your birth is your support team. Whether it’s one person, whether it’s your partner, or whether it’s a knowledgeable medwife, as I like to call them, medical midwife, or your best friend from childhood. I don’t know. I don’t know what it is for you. Maybe it’s an OB. Maybe that makes you feel most supported and helped.
Kiona: 22:40
Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. I agree with that. I think that it’s important to know your options and also know that you don’t have to stick with someone if they rub you the wrong way at the end. You know, I’ve had a couple people on the podcast that talk about switching last minute because their provider no longer supports their birthing preferences. And they decide to tell them that at 37 weeks, 38 weeks, 39 weeks and they’re like, I can literally birth my baby tomorrow and you’re telling me now I can’t try for a VVAC When you said this whole time I could or, you know, just getting rubbed the wrong way. And that could be enough to be like, um, actually I’m going to switch it up here.
Masey: 23:21
Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I love that power of choice and how we can just shift and that’s how my mindset was once I met Shannon and signed on with her was, okay, I’m now doing this thing called home birth that I’ve, I’ve really never thought about and I’ve literally never seen anyone in my life do. It’s not like I had a friend of a friend or my mom’s friend or I had never witnessed birth and I had definitely never witnessed it at home So to me that feels huge Something to embark on it really was my faith in this singular woman to walk me through that that you know She had done it before and seen women do it before That would carry me into my own successful birth.
Kiona: 24:11
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And it brings me, it brings two questions to mind for me and it makes me think of, one, did you have any, like, prenatal care prior to switching to her?
Masey: 24:24
Yes. I, until I found her and secured with her, so probably from October through the new year, I just went to Ole Obstetrics and Gynecology and signed up as a patient with them. So I got the typical care with them for a few weeks but then I just left, like I said, I didn’t, I wasn’t mad at anyone. I wasn’t firing anyone, but I was just like, I knew this wasn’t for me. And so I just never came back and they never contacted me. I went in postpartum for some services past my midwife’s six weeks.
Kiona: 25:03
hmm.
Masey: 25:03
but yeah.
Kiona: 25:04
Yeah, I think that’s great. And it’s good that even though you didn’t necessarily find your person yet, you still decided that it was still important, you know, to get some care throughout your pregnancy while you were still searching for Shannon. So,
Masey: 25:18
Yeah. It can be daunting as a first time mom, I think.
Kiona: 25:24
Absolutely.
Masey: 25:24
This close friend that birthed with Shannon this summer, she was going back and forth between doing a free birth or hiring a midwife, and she said to me postpartum, she’s like, I’m glad I… I’m glad I hired a midwife. It’s like, it’s like, it’s very daunting. Even if you’re in your thirties and you’re a grown woman to just, again, we don’t witness birth. It’s not normalized in our culture. So yeah, it’s good to have someone that would walk you through it. Now, if we’re talking about next time
Kiona: 25:49
Mm
Masey: 25:50
I would do things very differently and probably definitely never set foot in that kind of office again. But it’s not like I had a super negative experience. I got a list of my baby’s heartbeat. I got a few ultrasounds that made me feel at ease. I got to know that she was, gonna be a female, that she was gonna be a girl, which was really important to us, that we knew that before the birth. You know, there was a lot of tools that I used. I feel like I utilized the tools of the system as I went along.Kiona: 26:19
Yeah, I think that’s great. I just love everything that you’re saying because you did what you felt was right and you did, you followed like your gut instincts and just went with the flow and utilize the tools, like you said, getting everything you needed. So I love that.
Masey: 26:32
It’s awesome to be able to take bits and pieces of the system, the medical system when you need it, but also not feel like you have to if you don’t want to, and so in my own studies as an authentic midwife and birth keeper, whatever. Whatever you really want to call it. it would be to encourage women to utilize those resources, but also to tune into their instincts of whether they feel they need these services or not. and it’s, it really is up to them. It’s not up to anyone else.
Kiona: 27:01
Yeah. Yeah. But that does bring me to my second question that I had, because you were talking about how this isn’t something that you saw, like in your family, no one around you was doing this. So how did your family react when you told them, Oh, hey, I’m having a home birth with a midwife?
Masey: 27:19
First things first, I didn’t welcome a whole lot of opinions in, beyond my family. I didn’t tell people I was birthing at home, I wasn’t, this was before like social media was a huge thing and so I wasn’t putting it out there. That I was like blowing up my birth pool and,
Kiona: 27:35
Hmm.
Masey: 27:37
you know, seeing a midwife and stuff, so. Really, I had very limited opinions, but the people that knew me, like my parents, know me, and they know how independent and strong willed I am and can be. So, for them, it was just like, oh yeah, that’s something Masey would do. And my mom was actually my doula. You know, she’s not a certified doula, but she was my, one of my support people at the birth. So she got to see Selah born. I haven’t asked her how that’s changed her, but I should. and my dad, he went to like pre med all the way up to going to med school. So he’s a big believer in kind of doctor as savior, doctor as God. And so he was definitely a lot more nervous. So I kept him out of the birth sphere that I had. He while I was giving birth was like driving past my house, I later learned. But I kind of fudged the truth a little bit with him and was like, oh, yeah, my midwife brings along a nurse. She wasn’t a nurse. She was like her midwifery student. So I just like said some things that made him more comfortable which then made me more comfortable and then my husband like he I think he had his, like, his doubts, like his qualms, but he, I feel like he really did trust me to make the decisions for the birth. Which was great. and yeah, so I don’t, I don’t feel like I had a whole lot of, anytime anyone would start to say even a negative birth story within the hospital, within the system, I would just say, I’m actually not accepting anything but positive birth stories at this point. So I only had positivity incoming, whether it was personal stories or podcasts, like, or my midwife, it was all positive. And so, of course I would have a positive birth outcome. That’s all I knew in my head. Thankfully, even though I didn’t have any reference for birth, my mom never told me some negative, scary story. I knew that I came late, that I was almost 12 days late, and my daughter was exactly that, like 11 or 12 days after her due date. So I kind of had a reference of when I was going to birth in, which was nice.
Kiona: 29:58
Mmm. Yeah. I absolutely love how you just said you set that boundary for yourself and saying, actually, I am not taking any negative verse stories right now. I wish more people did that, cause negativity spreads so much faster than positivity.
Masey: 30:16
Yeah.
Kiona: 30:20
And I think that is true in and outside of the birth space. You know, there are people that are like, Oh my God, this happened to me, so it’s absolutely gonna happen to you, so prepare for it. No, that’s, that’s not true. You are your own person, you are birthing your baby, you’re not gunna birth their baby for them again. You know what I mean? It’s your experience.
Masey: 30:35
Totally.
Kiona: 30:35
And I think it’s super important that you set that boundary for yourself because you had a positive outcome. And even if your birth didn’t end up exactly as you had anticipated or the way that it did in this positive way, like say you did end up needing to transfer or you did need to do something X, Y, and Z. You still set that boundary for yourself so that there was only positivity coming in and there was nothing else necessarily scaring you from what could, should, blah, blah, blah, happen, so I love that and I’m happy that your experience ended up being positive.
Masey: 31:08
Yeah, me too. I think anytime anyone asks if I have any advice about home birth, my number one is like, don’t tell anyone. And I don’t mean like don’t tell anyone because you’re not proud of it or, or because it’s bad to tell people, but because you will get those unsolicited opinions. So keep your circle really small. Just those people who are going to witness you and whatever medical provider or not that you have. And that can be it. That can be it. Tell people very little. Tell people very little. And then you can tell the story later.
Kiona: 31:44
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s, that’s a good point. And I feel like that definitely works for some people because they’re like, yeah, you know, I would rather not have to defend myself every single time I tell someone about my birth, or I would rather not have to necessarily teach or explain what I’m doing to someone because one, I’m learning it along the way. And I don’t want to, I don’t have the energy to have to do that. And then for you to like, come at me with all of these other studies, you know? Like, just to kind of put up those walls of saying this is the decision I’m making. This is the path I’m following and the people that mean the most to me can be in the circle with me and those that are not can just wait and find out later. Some people like, for example, I have a sister who didn’t even, like, obviously social media is like huge right now, My sister didn’t announce her pregnancy. She didn’t announce that she had a baby, you know? And so when we ran into some friends or did a, like, reunion with some old friends from childhood, they’re like, oh my god, you had a baby? She’s like, yeah, and I’m married, you know, like, all this stuff. So it’s just like keeping what’s personal to you personal because the world is just
Masey: 32:59
Yeah.
Kiona: 32:59
people that aren’t close enough to… know, without being like, let me check your Facebook status, you know.
Masey: 33:06
I was gonna say, I love that about your sister because we almost have this belief that something isn’t legitimized unless it’s online, right? Unless we show a picture or we show the journey, like, yeah. And all of that can come later and you can defend yourself later and you can educate yourself, educate yourself and other people later. But I I don’t personally believe pregnancy is the time for like studies and lots of, arguments. That seems like more of a masculine frame of mind to me. where I’m just fully in my feminine, I am in the flow. Take what I need. Let the rest go. That’s what it feels like to me.
Kiona: 33:49
I think that’s totally valid. Yeah, it’s totally valid. It’s just so cool to also have that like moment of surprise, you know, like when you do run into someone and be like, Oh my God, like you had a baby, like, at least that’s what I always do because birth is like my jam. And so when I see that someone’s had a baby, I’m like, Oh my God, tell me all the things, you know, and it just makes it exciting, if people want to share. So. Yeah, and she’s also very adamant about like, not posting any images of him online, and I think that’s great because she wants him to be able to make his own decisions about it and, and everything, which, which is great. I do think that it poses some challenges just in the way that people navigate social media. As her as an individual, she can’t take a really awesome family photo and share it because she set that own boundary for herself. But she gets to share it with all of our family because we all have these electronic picture frames as well. And so we just, like,
Masey: 34:44
Oh,
Kiona: 34:44
upload each other’s images to these frames and they cycle through and we see all the goodness. But that could be shown to us. It’s the circle and not the world, who doesn’t even know he’s here yet, you know?
Masey: 34:58
Yeah. And then it can even be disappointing when you Maybe you post a pregnant photo or maybe you post something that’s really precious to you and then you’re not getting the feedback that say you would get from like an intimate group or your family and you’re feeling like, oh, well, I didn’t, I didn’t get the reassurance or the feedback that I needed. It’s just an odd relationship with social media. I think we can all kind of evaluate.
Kiona: 35:21
Yeah, it definitely is. And then people, like, I don’t know, always feel like they have the room to give opinions when you want to share something, like, I don’t know. Like there was this one picture, I remember I posted it when my oldest daughter was like two, it was like a, like a… picture with like Santa or something and then someone’s like, Ooh, are you pregnant again? And I was like, Nope, I’m just, I just got a little flub. Thanks though. You know, like those kinds of things, like the things that people say, and that was like eight years ago and I still remember that, you know? And so I was like, okay. It makes me think about how the way that you’re cared for throughout your pregnancy and your birth really stick with you far beyond the overall experience of being pregnant or giving birth. So, yeah,
Masey: 36:10
Yeah.
Kiona: 36:11
but let’s go ahead and dive into your actual birth. I would love to hear the details. is there anything you did in particular to prepare for birth outside of like, Connecting with an awesome provider. Did you take any childbirth education classes? Read any books or anything like that?
Masey: 36:27
Yeah, I was particularly concerned about My infant’s sleep, and so I kind of hyper focused on that. Read a lot of books about that, still have the printouts and the copies, and Anyways, never ended up referencing any of that, and she sleeps just fine, we still co sleep though, so Anyways, I, I didn’t spend I, I took a hypno birthing course, which was kind of the foundation of my preparation for birth. It was over a couple of weekends and my mom actually came with me because I was considering her to be my doula, my support person. and yeah. The teacher’s name was Rebecca Ellisor and she’s in Olympia, Washington. She’s incredible. She’s also a doula. Yeah, amazing mother of three. That’s a whole conversation in and of itself, hypnobirthing, but that was the tool that I chose. And so before I went to sleep at night, I would play these soundtracks that we had, on my computer and just allow myself to kind of be enveloped by that. And the goal was to use those soundtracks during birth, but my birth was so swift that I, I even think I took a, Drink of anything, let alone put on a playlist. So that was, I think, though, I mean, I would do it again because it was another way of setting me in that positive frame of mind for birth. It was these mantras that everything was going to go well, everything was unfolding as it needed to be. And a lot of other women that were in the class with me did listen to the hypnobirthing tracks through their labor. So I know it was super useful for them. one of the women ended up being my divorce lawyer So kind of funny Tracing back met her in the hypnobirthing course. So, I read some books i’m a yogi. So I did a lot of prenatal yoga both intuitive and just videos I found online. Trying to think of what else specifically I did to prepare. I was actually studying to become a realtor at the time. So that was a lot of… And I was working full time. So I was doing a lot of things just… I guess a normal human adult human would do.
Kiona: 38:41
hmm.
Masey: 38:42
I passed my real estate broker exam on my due date. So I went into the testing center big old pregnant belly and passed my exam. So I was still just like doing my Masey thing. Like I wasn’t mama yet. I mean I have said that, like, I felt like mom from the beginning, but I wasn’t mom, and so I was still embracing, like, fully just being Masey. And, yeah, those were the things I kind of did to prepare, I guess. I think thats it, I’m probably missing something.
Kiona: 39:15
No, I think that’s great. That’s a lot of… Resources right there, you know, just having that foundation through hypno birthing and kind of like letting that take you, like going with the flow, you know, staying with the feminine in that and just going with the flow of where hypno birthing took you for resources. And then really focusing on your infant sleep during your pregnancy. I think that’s awesome. I feel like not many people actually do that because I feel like it’s so common for people to focus on the pregnancy. Like, pregnancy, pregnancy, pregnancy, like, what is happening to me right now? And people are starting to get a little bit better at, but I feel like we still need more support in the postpartum preparation. You know, preparing for postpartum, because in a previous episode, I was, interviewing Jennie Joseph and we talked about the candy wrapper analogy that was given by Dr. Stubbie, which is the mother is just the candy wrapper of the baby and after the baby is born, the candy is out and the wrapper’s thrown away. So people aren’t actually focusing on the mother or birthing person as much postpartum as they should. And so that’s where a lot of, maternal morbidity and mortality happens. So yeah, I think that it’s awesome that you were focused on your infant sleep. And it just makes me think that you were kind of prepping for postpartum a way to be like, okay, sleep is important for both my baby and myself. So
Masey: 40:43
Yeah. Yeah. No, I was prepping for postpartum in a way and the analogy I was going to use for that was, when we’re pregnant, we’re climbing this mountain to the top for our birth, but then the birth occurs and we’re at the top of the mountain and we still got to get down
Kiona: 41:00
Mm-hmm.
Masey: 41:01
and often, you’re so tired physically and mentally and spiritually from the journey of pregnancy that the way down is even more difficult, and the postpartum is even more difficult than the pregnancy and birth. And so that’s what I experienced. if I, when I do it again, I will be preparing meals, whether that’s stockpiling my fridge and freezer, or lining up a meal train, or hiring a chef. I know that sounds crazy, but seriously? Hiring someone to make me meals? because I found that, At some point, the meal train wore off after a couple of weeks and then we were still so immersed in this special period this special time and we didn’t have the support that we needed. He went back to work I went back to work at eight weeks postpartum. Part time from home, but still, yeah, and I was gonna reference what I just said about the hypnobirthing. I got so lucky, I feel like, with the different women that were placed into my life. I love my mom, but I felt like these women were mothers to me, and like, really just guiding lights. And… I’ll share my birth, of course, but at one point, my midwife grabbed my hands like my mom and looked into my eyes and said, you can do this. And I mean, it’s like full body chills still because I did it. Then I just did it because she said I could do it.
Kiona: 42:27
Yeah. Oh, yes, yes. Let’s dive into it. Let’s go there.
Masey: 42:33
I mean, honestly, it’s a really short story. So, my due date was, was moved a couple of different times, mostly because I had such irregular periods and I didn’t find out until later in the pregnancy. So it was thought that I was due April 21st. And then she was in quote, measuring small. So then it was moved to April 28th. So that was the date that I was apparently 40 weeks, but the calculation was always kind of off. like I mentioned previously, I knew that my mom had carried me. 11, 12 days passed. And so that was my reference. She was induced with my brother and that’s a different story. So I didn’t really count that timing, but for her first, she went that far past. And so that’s how I was kind of measuring myself. And I knew Saleh would be born in May, even though the due date was April. I just, we had this calendar countdown that everyone who came over could like, this big chalk calendar could write their guess and it didn’t even include May and I like wrote at the bottom, I think it was like May 5th and I guess she was born May 9th. So I just knew it was gonna be May and it wasn’t like, oh I’m like this intuitive seer, it was like she and I were just In direct communication like we still are years later. So I started to hide out at home near the end of April into maybe, cause again, I didn’t want the questions. I was attending a church where a couple other women were due around the same time as me and they had already had their babies gone in and been induced. And I just was like, I don’t want to talk to anyone. I don’t want to answer any questions. So. My last like public appearance, I guess, like going out in public was Tuesday night before she was born. I went to, like a church dinner where we made food for each other. My husband was there and, all my friends again had their babies. And my husband and I ended up driving home separately that night for whatever reason. And so I was driving, making like the 30 minute drive home. And. Whatever song came on the radio like had me in tears and I just knew that she was going to be born that night. And part of the story is that my midwife had said, you know, if you reach 42 weeks, we’re going to have to go into the hospital. And she kind of, at that appointment, slipped me like a little castor oil concoction. So it was castor oil, almond butter, like I had to buy agave nectar, and then mix it up into a smoothie, and so I basically saved that until 41 and 4 that night, and I just got home and I was like, this is the night, so I took it, it’s difficult to say, I mean, obviously that induced labor because she came, but I also believe that babies don’t come until they’re ready with these like alternative inductions. So I think she was ready anyways, but I did self induce. So I drank this castor oil concoction at about 9pm and I went to bed and I woke up at Probably 1:30, almost 2, and went to the bathroom. Thank you, castor oil. And I thought that was it. I was like, great. That like, cleared my bowels. We’re going to talk about poop here. Like, great, that cleared my bowels. So I get up to go back to bed, and I, I remember thinking, like, well, I got up to go back to bed, and I had, like, my first sensation, I would say. I hadn’t, up till 41 and 4, through the whole pregnancy, had a single… Like labor esque sensation. Nothing so I had my first sensation as I was making my way back to bed and I remember kneeling down at the edge of the bed and going, okay, like literally thinking through it logically, they always tell you to rest in the beginning. So I’m going to rest. So I got up from the edge of the bed, I laid back down in bed and then I had my second and I was like, whoa! I am not going to be resting. It was like immediate. So yeah, I feel like my speak, my speaking is quickening because this whole, whole thing feels like a whirlwind to me. It’s still very hard for me to tell because it was five hours from that first ever sensation to literally seeing her. So I felt like I was strapped naked to a roller coaster, literally. so I knew from that second sensation that I wouldn’t be resting. I went back to the end of the bed and kind of moved through the next. that’s when my husband woke up, like heard me vocalizing a little bit. And then I quickly texted my mom. He called the midwife and she was there within, I guess, the next hour and a half and she checked me. At this point. I was in the bathroom. So I had moved kind of back and forth between. The bathroom in the bedroom when she arrived. My mom was there with me in the bathroom. She checked me while I was on all fours in the bathroom and she was like, Oh, you’re at 7 centimeters. So this is like 2 hours into labor and she’s like, I think it would be good if you got into the tub. And so then my husband, we had a birthing tub already set up at like the foot of the bed. And so he filled up the tub and then I got in and I remember it relieving the pain. But also I think I was in transition at that point because I remember saying like I can’t do this. I think I’m gonna die but it wasn’t like a legitimate call for help like let’s go to the hospital or let’s call an ambulance. It was like something No one could save me from. No one could rescue me from. It was almost like a spiritual death and dying of course of this maiden now that’s becoming a mother, but I’ll just say for those women who have long first births or long births in general don’t ever wish that you have a five hour birth because it was. None of it was enjoyable. The only enjoyable point I got was when I transitioned into the pushing phase and then the contractions became purposeful and the sun was also rising because she was born at minutes before 7 a. m. And so actually a beautiful part of the story, probably the most beautiful part and the part I remember the most is when I did a lot of the pushing in a goddess squat. So I was in a like a goddess squat type position in the tub and I was facing the sun coming through the window and my midwife was in front of me and this is when she held my hands and said like, you can do it. You can do this. and so, My mom was also there, but she wasn’t as, like, present in my face. but anyways, the sun was rising, and I just said, her name’s gonna be Selah. Like, we had had a couple of names up till that point that we thought we might give her, but I just said, it’s gonna be, her name is Selah, is what I said. And then, yeah, I pushed for probably an hour, and rolled over on my back, still in the tub. And my husband was behind me and the midwife helped guide her out onto my chest. And that story feels like, again, such a whirlwind to tell because it’s like trying to remember five hours of your life from five years ago.
Kiona: 50:07
uh,
Masey: 50:08
And I know it’s more significant than that, but really it was such a… it was not a gradual process. It was not even one that I could reflect on as it was happening. It was so mind bendingly, excruciatingly painful. I hate to even say that, that I wanted to die throughout, throughout the process. I wasn’t feeling full and ripe and beautiful. I just was primal. I was literally feral. I was in the water, like going under the water and like coming up. My hair was completely soaked. I was soaked when she was born because I just, I was doing things literally. I felt like just to stay above water, I felt like I was. In the ocean being pummeled by these waves. And I, it’s funny because I say in hindsight that I needed that type of birth in order to weather what was to come in postpartum and, and a severe mental health challenge and going through a divorce. Like I kind of needed that, perspective to be like, Oh, well, I did the hardest thing ever. So I can do this, but that’s the only meaning I can make of it thus far.
Kiona: 51:26
Wow, that is a story. And I actually really love every single individual detail of it because there’s so much meaning behind every single little thing that you just shared. And I say that because you talk about the details that are small enough that some others couldn’t necessarily recognize, but they meant something to you. For example, you literally just like going underwater, coming back up. It relates to you feeling as if you were being pummeled by literal waves in the ocean. And that is physical, mental, emotional, all of the things. And I just love that. I love that so much. And I also appreciate that you had stated all of those people out there that are hoping for a short, quick labor to maybe not do so. Because you don’t have time to process. You really don’t have time to process. It’s, it is a challenge, and I feel like your experience is 100 percent valid, and that’s a lot. And so I do appreciate and thank you for sharing that.
Masey: 52:37
Thank you for holding the space. Yeah, I love the water analogy. I’m very close to the ocean closely knit. So was my ex husband. So is our daughter. we all have Pisces in our major placements in our chart. So, But we also lived in Hawaii for six months time and I was very humbled by the waves there and so I felt like I was in some ways this sort of like cocky kid before my labor I mean, it’s not the best description but this maiden that felt like she could do anything and then birth was like Really? Are you sure about that? We’re gonna, we’re gonna quickly humble you and I, I mean, I was truly humbled. I was like Thank you for letting me live. Thank you. And for giving me a baby too. so humbled, I think would be probably the best way to put it. And you know, it’s easy to tell the story many different ways in hindsight. I think if you just saw it on a social media setting, you’ll be like, Oh, Masey had a home birth. She’s so cool. Like she birthed her baby without drugs or whatever. But it’s like, no, no, no. It was so much more intimate. That I can ever even convey or, or describe, and I, I didn’t speak about it probably until six weeks later when I wrote it down and I still have it written down. just, I probably should have read that today, honestly. It’s probably a better description. But, yeah, still very humbled. I mean, I am a gung ho home birther, but like, that birth, made me be like, If I’m gonna have a second kid, maybe I’ll just go get an epidural. But, like, No, like there’s something in me that’s like, I have to experience what birth has to offer. I have to. I am hoping that next time it’s a little longer.
Kiona: 54:33
Yeah. Which, honestly, I don’t think is a common hope, you know? I don’t think that that’s a common hope because a lot of people are like, Oh my gosh, it was crazy hard. Like, and it was, it was so long and you’re like, Oh man, I hope at least for a couple extra hours, you know, to be able to like process this.
Masey: 54:53
I just listened to this podcast this morning of a woman who had a 36 hour first birth and the way she described it was like, and this is two years ago, she was describing it two years in retrospect, and she was like, and then I put my knee up here, and then I put my leg down there, and then I put my leg. She knew every single second of this, and I was, I was partly jealous, because I was like, again, strap naked, roller coaster, like,
Kiona: 55:22
right.
Masey: 55:23
all I know is that I ended up back where I started.
Kiona: 55:26
Yeah.
Masey: 55:29
So, anyways, I don’t know. Logistically, I don’t know if castor oil was part of that. I mean, part of it is just Selah’s personality. And when she came out. This child was like, I mean, she cried. She did the initial cry, but she really, I had, the photos are incredible. She was just like wide eyed, staring, just, just staring at her dad and I, like, hi, I’m here. Are you guys ready? Like, we were just, she was like looking straight into the both of us. And, yeah, I, so I don’t, I, I really, I’m still, as you can hear, totally taken aback.
Kiona: 56:12
Yeah. Yeah. And I just want to say that there are so many details in your story that I think that some people may not even remember about theirs. And the reason why I’m saying that is because you were just describing how you heard on the podcast that this person was talking about a birth they had two years ago with like foot positions and leg positions and stuff. But the things that you are bringing up, like the feelings, the feelings that you’re bringing up and sharing. Are things that people may not remember or think about initially because they had a long labor, they’re more focused on the details of motion and position. But you are very much talking about to what to me sounds like a very spiritual experience of coming into motherhood with this, like, battle of making it to the other side. You know, and I just want to say again, thank you for sharing that because it That is very, very real, and I can relate. I can relate, and I’m sure many of the listeners will be able to relate as well.
Masey: 57:20
I’m glad. Yeah, I feel like I describe it in more of an ethereal spiritual manner than I do a physical because that’s what it was for me. I mean, obviously there’s the physical changes that were occurring, but because they were occurring so fast, it was almost like I was reading the book about it or like reading the synopsis of it. And what’s been difficult for me, too, is. Not having, so my partner and I, my husband and I split three years later, and then my mom and I aren’t as close anymore, like she’s not someone I would invite into my birth space, and so I haven’t felt like I’ve gotten to have a whole lot of post, like far postpartum review of my birth. It just wouldn’t be appropriate to ask him anymore. I guess I should ask my mom and process with her. But yeah, and then my midwife, you know, this is a job for her. I know, I know we had a special connection, but this is still her career.
Kiona: 58:23
Yeah, all of those are very good points, and I think it is important to have a debrief at any point in postpartum and kind of come back. You know, you’re five and a half years postpartum, and we will forever be postpartum. And so I think whenever anybody feels the urge of, like, debriefing a birth again, the debrief never takes away from the importance of the event. Does that make sense? So. I would say, yeah, reach out to your mom and see how she feels about it. and if at any point here on out, you want to reach out to your ex husband and see, like, how was that for you? obviously, I don’t know the relationship that you have with your ex husband, but, like, just out of curiosity. And it could be, like, potentially some form of closure or just, curiosity being answered. And I don’t know, I mean, I’m a strong believer that, like, the babies that we birth also have some kind of memory, whether it’s shown in their personality or shown just in the way that they speak as they get older, and the knowledge that they show throughout their lifetime. So, you know. That’s a, I feel like that’s a very spiritual aspect for me, like, I can listen to my kids and be like, oh, you were totally born on the water and you know it, you know? like…
Masey: 59:41
I love that line.
Kiona: 59:42
yeah.
Masey: 59:45
Yeah. Totally. They carry it with them. You know, the body remembers. So they’re carrying it with them whether they remember or choose to remember or not. I think if we allow them, if we allow babies to just be born, they can absolutely show us parts of their personality in the birth process. And, I mean, my daughter has totally radicalized me
Kiona: 1:00:08
Mm.
Masey: 1:00:08
and radicalized my whole life. Her, I mean, she’s the reason I’m not indoctrinated into the church anymore. Because I can’t believe that something as angelic as her would ever be called sinful. And so that’s a more personal note. But I stopped believing that. I stopped practicing it because I said this isn’t true for me. I mean, I call her my angel. She’s literally just a little glowing angel that was like, yeah, I’m ready to be here now. I’m gonna come at this time, in this way, like, she’s such a Taurus.
Kiona: 1:00:40
Mm. Mm.
Masey: 1:00:42
And what a, like, beautiful compliment to my Virgo. It’s like, Oh, my gosh, this little girl. So yeah, I don’t know if you want me to speak briefly on postpartum. I
Kiona: 1:00:54
I do Yeah, I was actually going to dive into that, and I wanted to ask you, how was your postpartum, and what was your feeding choices that you made, and, and did you experience any postpartum mood fluctuations or postpartum depression?
Masey: 1:01:09
My gosh. Yeah. So physically, I did tear. Selah came out with her little hand like this. So I tore a little bit. I got stitched up by my midwife and As far as I know, like that healed well. I haven’t had any physical like issues with incontinence or limitations or anything like that. So I’m very, very grateful for that. I ran a half marathon at about six months postpartum. I’m a big runner. So I was able to get back into that at like four months postpartum and it was my saving grace mentally. Like I said, we struggled. Struggled on other fronts just to, I mean, I was back to work and he was back to work and then I was trying to kind of be a stay at home mom while working. And then our marriage wasn’t great. So I had a, I struggled a lot. I would say I hit my stride probably into three or four months. that’s when breastfeeding became really, really easy and convenient. I enjoyed it. I, I did enjoy that process. It took a while for my, my, my boobs to enjoy that process. But I, I did enjoy that process. And I ended up feeding her pretty much solely on my breast for 10 months. And then at 10 months postpartum, I had what’s called a postpartum psychosis or a manic break. which I had been building up to for a while, signs of hypomania and unaddressed. And so I was actually diagnosed bipolar at 10 months postpartum, and that’s a much longer story. But I was in the hospital for 10 days. I had to wean her while I was in the hospital. It was just, it was horrific. It was truly horrific. so at that point she went on formula. And pretty much eating at that point. but no, I did not have the support that I needed postpartum. And like, I’m not joking when I say that next time if there is the next time, I would hire a postpartum chef, like. Over a doula or even a midwife, like someone that would just be there to like cook me healthy meals while I laid in bed and rested and did not run half marathons. I mean, my personality, I think I was striving in so many ways to just get back to Masey instead of embracing this new Mama Mase that I, that I was and I am. That I was like trying to accomplish all these things that would make me feel significant when really this significance of like this child and her and I and her needing me was the biggest thing that I was missing. I didn’t think that was enough. I thought I had to do other things with it, which is part of my personality. so yeah, I would say I would do postpartum a lot differently than I would the birth or pregnancy. Pregnancy would be very similar, should I do that again. Birth would be different, but not all too different, but postpartum would be so different. So different. I would love to take the 40 days that women talk about and just like lay in bed for 40 days, stay in my cave, nurse my baby, not have strangers come over. Their not strangers, but outsiders.
Kiona: 1:04:22
Mm hmm.
Masey: 1:04:23
Again, I would say I hit a stride at some point from like three months to like 10 months on just because I got the feeding thing down that was the biggest thing because I could just take her with me anywhere and feed her anywhere and then she’d fall asleep anywhere. And, she was really like a great sleeper naturally. So it’s funny that I read all that stuff and didn’t really implement it. she slept pretty independently from the beginning, which was. now she sleeps with me again. So sleep training can, yeah, just totally backfire. Um I didn’t, I didn’t do the formal sleep training, but I did try to get her to sleep independently and now she just wants to be near me. So yeah, that’s a, that’s kind of the conclusion. I see like the conclusion of my pregnancy and postpartum period as kind of just going on in the last year or so, as she goes off to kindergarten and really becomes independent. Like, I felt like I was really still in postpartum, even though I wasn’t actively feeding her or had any physical symptoms. Um, I really feel like we’re starting to finally detach a little bit.
Kiona: 1:05:30
Mm.
Masey: 1:05:31
so
Kiona: 1:05:32
yeah.. Yeah. That sounds like a rough postpartum journey, to be honest. uh, because, you know, as you had previously mentioned in this episode, like, there was a lot going on just in your marriage as well as just dealing with becoming. You know, dealing with becoming a mother and the postpartum psychosis is so real and I feel like a lot of people don’t focus on postpartum enough, you know, the candy wrapper analogy. and I want to thank you for sharing that portion of your story as well, because some people are hesitant because they feel like it’s going to change how they identify as a parent if they share too much. I, yeah, I just want to validate that what you went through is challenging and I’m happy that you are where you are.
Masey: 1:06:22
Thank you. And I wanna say too, that I’ve now been in remission from bipolar for two years, so I’ll always have the label, but I’ve been in remission for two years, so I, I don’t like the stigma that goes along with it, that you’re just moody or, or bitchy or whatever it is. but more that there’s sustained periods of highs and sustained periods of lows, and that can definitely occur postpartum. Absolutely. And when those highs go unaddressed, it can turn into psychosis. so that’s another thing I’m really passionate about. maternal mental health. Yeah.
Kiona: 1:06:57
yeah, 100%, 100%. Yeah. So we’ll kind of close off this interview with asking just a few questions. one of the first questions that I wanted to ask is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to like all pregnant people as they prepare for labor and birth and postpartum?
Masey: 1:07:20
Oh my gosh. Do what you want. Like seriously, like within the limitations that you set for yourself, do what feels good. Like, do what you want. This is the time to tune in and ask yourself that question because it will not lead you astray.
Kiona: 1:07:38
Mm hmm.
Masey: 1:07:41
yeah, I’m not going to give any like medical or like any bigger advice outside that because I do feel like the mother. The person with the child inside of them has the final say, and they know best.
Kiona: 1:07:56
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. I like that, and I agree. I feel like it goes along the lines of just following your intuition and listening to your gut, and moving forward with that, so,
Masey: 1:08:07
Yeah.
Kiona: 1:08:07
yeah. My next question is, what is one potential resource that we can share with the listeners on your behalf? Maybe one that you used many years back, or…
Masey: 1:08:24
So something I used postpartum. I bought the Freebirth Society’s Complete Guide to Freebirth, which I think is around$200.$250. And even if you’re not planning to free birth or birth at home or anything like that, the way that these Very well educated, well attended women, go into the intricacies of the birth process, how they describe it as a dance, just the level of insight and depth that you can get into in a course like that. Like, I would say, even if it’s not that course, do a self study course about physiological birth. Like what, and do it even before you’re pregnant. Like do it as a woman do it as a person that can get pregnant. I’m just even into my 30s now. I’m 32 I’m just starting to learn and enjoy the processes of my body including menstruating and pregnancy and birth like we’re incredible as women and I Cannot learn enough and so that was a great resource to I’ve been through it twice. It takes like a couple of weeks to get through its video format. So really easy to just like set up or listen to, um, also podcasts like this, that talk about birth, that you just hear birth stories. honestly, story is medicine.And story is the way that we learn. And so just hearing as many stories as possible. So I like, I just, you know, I’ve just been introduced to your podcast, but also freebird Society and doing at home are like the two that I listen to. Religiously. Yeah.
Kiona: 1:10:10
Yeah, I love that and, yeah, I agree that storytelling is a very, one, healing process for those that are telling stories and two, a very educational process for those that are hearing them because it validates the fact that One person can experience something and you can connect with that, but it doesn’t mean that your story has to end the way that theirs ended.
Masey: 1:10:33
Yeah.
Kiona: 1:10:34
So, yeah, I love that and that’s part of the reason why I created this podcast was because one, I love hearing birth stories. I feel like it’s one way that I can get into the birth space without having to like be on call or be in the room. but I also feel that it’s very much educational to me. I learned so much from every person that tells a story and it’s hard because with the education and experience that I do have in the past, some people would say, Oh, you’re an expert in a birth doula, or you’re an expert in the birth field in some way, some kind of expert. And I’m like, I am learning every single day. I will continue to learn. And I feel like it’s hard for me to label myself as any kind of expert, regardless of how many births I’ve been to, because every single birth is different. and where you birth in the world changes. Everything about how you birth. So, I, yeah. I, I will definitely share these resources, and I have Free Birth Society, and that’s a podcast as well as a course. Or,
Masey: 1:11:39
So they have a course called the complete guide to free birth. It’s like their pilot course. Um, honestly worth all the money. I, like I’ve said, I’ve watched it through several times. Great. Even if you’re not going to free birth or home birth. and then, yeah, just, I mean, any birth podcast that you resonate with, it doesn’t have to be one of the ones I share just one that maybe your friend has recommended to you or you’ve seen on your homepage on your podcast, like just pick something that has the storytelling aspect of birth rather than like the logical learning aspect, I would say, if that makes sense, because you, you do learn from story, um, and stories stay with you. And I think as a person that’s birthing, when you’re going into that portal yourself, all of these stories are with you in a way. And all of these women are with you in a way. So I love the stories. I could listen to the stories forever. I’m like you. I’m a birth junkie. I could, I could, I don’t know if I could do the logistical aspect of a podcast, but oh, I would love to just listen.
Kiona: 1:12:49
Yeah, yeah, it’s, yeah, it’s a passion project for me on my end, of just spreading knowledge through other people’s stories. Educating people on birth in this format is definitely amazing. In my, my opinion, I mean, I’m the one that’s sitting here, reaching out to individuals wanting to share their stories because like I said before, it helps humanize and recognize the different ways that birth unfolds and how different it can be for each person. so yeah. And I,
Masey: 1:13:22
it’s so so important. yeah,
Kiona: 1:13:25
it, really, really is. I do really love the resources that you shared with me. my final question is if you could describe your pregnancy, labor, and birth with just one word, what would that word be for you?
Masey: 1:13:38
Radical.
Kiona: 1:13:41
I love it.
Masey: 1:13:42
Radical yeah.
Kiona: 1:13:43
Yeah.
Masey: 1:13:44
Like, radical.
Kiona: 1:13:46
Yeah, like that’s so rad
Masey: 1:13:47
With gumption.
Kiona: 1:13:49
Yeah.
Masey: 1:13:50
Or, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, life changing, but that’s also, that’s… Another word for radical.
Kiona: 1:13:56
Mmhmm. Yeah. And one thing that you said, that stuck out to me the most when you were saying your birth story, because you did also mention it twice, so I feel like it means something to you as well, is being strapped naked to a rollercoaster. And just going, you know? I think that’s amazing because it puts a really good visual in it for me, honestly.
Masey: 1:14:21
I was not truly visualizing that until now.
Kiona: 1:14:26
But I love it. I think it’s so good.
Masey: 1:14:29
Cause you’re not calculating like how many highs and lows and like how many minutes in between. You’re just like, I hope I don’t fall off.
Kiona: 1:14:36
Mm hmm.
Masey: 1:14:38
that, that, like, was my, like, I hope I don’t fall off.
Kiona: 1:14:42
Yeah, I also, really, really liked your mountain analogy of like how the birth is the peak, you know, because a lot of, a lot of birth stories talk about the waves of contractions or surges and like the motion of up and down. And I think it’s a good visual. To kind of mentally think of the climbing the mountain and giving birth at the top and needing to come back down. Like, what that coming down looks like. And what I thought when you said that was, climbing the mountain was kind of like a… Like, a semi cleared trail that you can follow, cause you have some guidance, you know, little bit of a rocky terrain potentially, and then when you’re at the top, you give birth, and when you come down, the terrain, you’re in foresty paths. You know, there’s, there’s some cliffs, there’s more rocky terrain, and as you’re coming down you gotta find a safe way for you to come down, cause there’s no going back the trail that you came up, so,
Masey: 1:15:46
Yeah. Well, yeah, I didn’t even think of it that way. Yeah, there’s no going back and your legs are, if you’ve ever climbed a mountain, I mean, your legs are shaking physically, but maybe also you’re mentally a little bit scared as you’re, as you’re trying to brace yourself on the way down. The way down is, I think, the hardest part. And I think a lot of women would say that postpartum is the most difficult part for them. Because you’re, and again, you can only plan for so much, especially if it’s your first go at this, you’re, you are really just thinking up until the birth, but you got to remember that you’re making your way down as well.
Kiona: 1:16:21
And I would say you do it every time, because with being a mother of three, the, the mountain you climb up, you’re climbing up with, like, other humans, yeah, more weight, and so you go in, I personally went in with a little bit, not necessarily more fear, but awareness that. If something did happen to me or something did happen to this baby that I’m carrying, it’s impacting the people behind me that are supporting me, you know? So, like if I ended up not coming out of the second birth of my son, because I hemorrhaged a lot postpartum, if I ended up dying, I would have left my daughter behind, you know? And so, going into it every time brings a different set of quote unquote baggage, you know, a different set of weights that you’re carrying with you. So,
Masey: 1:17:18
I see that.
Kiona: 1:17:19
yeah,
Masey: 1:17:21
Yeah. But you’re lighting the way you’re showing your daughter and your son How to birth that’s like my conclusion is like but at least they got to see it. You didn’t die But like like they They get to see you do that. They get to see you climb a mountain and maybe every day, maybe every day is like a new mountain because it sure as hell was for me. So, I like partly hope for the pregnancy journey again just so that my daughter can watch. I think that’s so important. I think it’s crucial.
Kiona: 1:17:56
Yeah. And if, down the line, you do become pregnant again and your daughter wants to talk about her experience of watching you do that, she’s welcome to share her perspective on the podcast too.
Masey: 1:18:10
that would be amazing.
Kiona: 1:18:12
Yeah, my, episode four is my oldest daughter talking about being present at the birth of her siblings. So
Masey: 1:18:19
Wow, I love that. Oh my gosh, I love that so much.
Kiona: 1:18:26
Yeah. And she was nine when we did the interview, so it was, was just fun to hear.
Masey: 1:18:31
I’m gonna listen to that. You said episode four.
Kiona: 1:18:33
Yeah. Yeah. Episode four. Yeah. and the first three episodes are like my births. And so one reason why I felt it was important to record my own births was that so my kids could hear how I was feeling and what I was doing and all those things around their
Masey: 1:18:51
Yeah. What a gift to them. That’s amazing
Kiona: 1:18:55
Yeah. Yeah. And this will be a gift to your little one as well.
Masey: 1:18:58
I didn’t even of think of that.
Kiona: 1:19:00
Yeah.
Masey: 1:19:01
you think our kids will listen to podcasts?
Kiona: 1:19:04
I mean, at least it’s recorded, right?
Masey: 1:19:07
Yeah.
Kiona: 1:19:08
There’s an option. It’s going to be like the cassette tape of their time.
Masey: 1:19:12
Yeah. They’re gonna be like, what? Plug a headset in?
Kiona: 1:19:15
Yeah. It’s
Masey: 1:19:17
just already in your brain.
Kiona: 1:19:18
Yeah.
Masey: 1:19:19
Yeah.
Kiona: 1:19:20
Yeah. Well, Macy, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I really had an amazing time and this was such a great conversation.
Masey: 1:19:27
Yeah. Thank you again. I really appreciate it.
Kiona: 1:19:30
Yeah, of course. During this interview with Masey, I learned so much and I’m excited that she had such a powerful and life changing journey. I truly love all of her analogies of climbing mountains, as well as being strapped, naked to a rollercoaster. I feel like both of those analogies are so. Real. I also reached back out to Masey to get a clearer definition of what authentic midwifery is, because I had an idea of what it was, but I knew that if I wasn’t truly aware, some of the listeners probably weren’t either. So. She had stated that authentic midwifery or traditional midwifery is distinguished from medically credentialed, midwifery, like CNM or CPM. It can also be described as a birth attendant or witness. And there’s also the term birth keeper. And she said birth keeper is how her current program defines it. And they differ from the allopathic model of midwifery in that they don’t carry or desire any credentialing. And that the commitment is to women and families and not to the system. So in order to serve in integrity, They seek to separate themselves in that way. She often describes it as the doula, because that’s what people understand in modern Western context. And she also said that they don’t typically charge or advertise for birth services, but run birth adjacent businesses, which is super interesting. And I think that there’s different kinds of midwives out there. And I think that this is very interesting and could add to the confusion of what a doula is, but. There’s so many things out there. So if you want to learn more about it, you can go ahead and check out the program that she is in, which is called the radical birth keeper school. The marketing, it looks amazing for it. Um, the pictures are beautiful people holding their baby soon after birth. So it looks super awesome. I would go ahead and check it out, especially if you’re into learning more about free birth or unassisted birth. With that said, Macy. I wanted to thank you again because your story is truly amazing. And I am so thankful and honored that you decided to share your story on the podcast. And I’m excited to hear about the births that you attend and just to dig a little bit deeper on what authentic midwifery looks like for you. If you liked this episode, as much as I did leave a review and share it with a friend, it will really help bring the podcast to the attention of other people that are interested in birth education, through storytelling. For next week’s episode, I interviewed an old friend named Taylor Montgomery. She has three amazing birth stories of her boys. And the awesome part is she moved from a very small town in Eastern Washington and is now across the world. And I actually interviewed her when she was in Northern Africa. So tune in next week to hear about what decisions she had to make around her pregnancies and births when conceiving, during COVID and needing to choose which country to actually birth her sons in. So stay tuned to get the juicy details.
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