8-Siena Butler-Cesarean-VBAC-3 Births-Conscious Nurturer

Description:

Siena is a birth and postpartum doula who has been practicing in the birth field for 6+ years and is the owner of Conscious Nurturer. In this episode, Siena dives into some complications she had in her first pregnancy that led to her needing a C-section and how she followed that experience with a vaginal birth after a cesarean (VBAC), and a home birth after a cesarean (HBAC). 

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

The resources I mention in this episode are listed below:

• Evidence Based Birth: https://evidencebasedbirth.com/ 
• Conscious Nurturer-Siena Butler: https://www.instagram.com/consciousnurturer/ 

Definitions: 

• Intrauterine Growth Restriction (IUGR)
• Amniocentesis
• Prodromal Labor
• Prolapse
• Non-Invasive Prenatal Test (NIPT)
• Different Cesarean Incisions
• Different Degrees of Perineal Tears
• Trial of Labor
• TENS Unit
• Gates Theory

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Transcription of Episode 8:

KIONA: Hello and welcome to Birth As We Know It. I am your podcast host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, and as a mother of three amazing children with my husband and high school sweetheart by my side. After attending over 130 births, including my own, I’ve realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me every week as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of the stories can be triggering to hear, so feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you’re ready. With that said, let’s prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space. 

As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.

Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning back into the Birth As We Know It podcast today. I am so happy and honored to be interviewing an old friend of mine. Her name is Sienna, and she is the owner of Conscious Nurturer, which is a sprouting business of hers that focuses on childbirth, education, and informing others of how to go through the process of unmedicated birth and trusting their bodies. And she is also a birth and postpartum doula who has been practicing for about six years now. And at the moment, she is located in Northern Virginia/DC. So welcome, Siena. Thank you for being on the podcast. 

SIENA: Thank you so much for having me. 

KIONA: Yeah, of course. So let’s go ahead and just start off by you telling us a little bit about yourself and who’s in your family.

SIENA: So I have three beautiful children that are extremely high maintenance and high needs. My oldest is ten and my middle is a girl, and my oldest is a boy. His name is Iam, and then my middle is a girl. Her name is Aura. She’s five. She’s almost six. She’ll be six in one month. So that’s exciting. And then my youngest is Dila and she is turning three next month. So, yeah, we stay here in Northern Virginia. We’re living with my grandma and my mom at the moment. So it’s like four generations…

KIONA: Beautiful 

SIENA: in the same house, which is fun, but also a lot. 

KIONA: Yeah, definitely. That’s awesome. So today we’re going to be diving into your own personal birth experiences with those three beautiful humans. But before you had babies on your own or children yourself, have you ever attended a birth prior? 

SIENA: No, I had never been to a birth, and I think that that was one of the scary parts for me of not knowing really what to expect. 

KIONA: MMM. So would you say, going through your birth experiences with your 1st, 2nd, or third, did that, like, inspire you to become a birth worker? 

SIENA: Yeah, after my first child, I was 17 when I gave birth and he was IUGR, which is intrauterine growth restricted, which means he was very small for the amount of weeks that he was. And so I was being monitored weekly for that. And I didn’t really know the implications of what it meant to be monitored. Like, if they saw something, I might have to be induced. None of those conversations ever happened. And so I was going for a regular appointment and they told me that I was going to be induced after some monitoring. And that kind of was like, oh, it’s shocking. And so it’s just a continuous experience of those kinds of things with my birth experience with him. And so I had a C-section. And so my second time around with Aura, I was like, I want to a VBAC, vaginal birth after Cesarean. And I was still kind of in the mindset of once a C-section, always a C-section. So even when I was getting the C-section, I was like, am I going to be able to have a vaginal birth after this? And they’re like, we’re doing, they call it like a low transverse, you know, incision. So that way it’s more… what is the word? It’s just better to have a vaginal birth in that way. Or I guess a doctor would say safer versus having what they would call the classical incision, which is vertical versus a low horizontal. So, yeah. VBAC 

KIONA: Nice. Okay, so we kind of jumped ahead a little bit there, which is okay, but I would love to talk more about how your pregnancy was with Iam, because you mentioned that you had IUGR, the intrauterine growth restriction. And so at what point in your pregnancy did you realize that that was the case? Around what, weeks? How far… 

SIENA: Honestly? But you know what? I feel like it was earlier on, it was an ongoing thing for, I’ll just guess maybe 20-plus weeks or maybe 25-plus weeks. I don’t know. But, yeah, I felt like it was kind of like this lingering thing, my whole pregnancy, there was just always some kind of concern about something. 

KIONA: Were there any other medical conditions or concerns that you had throughout your pregnancy? 

SIENA: They do the testing to test for trisomy, and I forgot what the other ones are for, but umm, Down Syndrome and things like that. And so my test was showing that because I guess it’s more of a screen or something like this. So it was showing me that I was at risk at the same rate as 40-year-old woman to have a child with Down Syndrome or Turner. So I did the, not Turners, Down syndrome, or the trisomy. So I did. I don’t think it was an amnio. I think it was the CVS, and I forgot what that stands for. But they take a sample of your amniotic fluid and test it. 

KIONA: Yeah, that’s an amniocentesis. 

SIENA: Okay. 

KIONA: Did they put, like, the needle in your stomach to get a little bit of amniotic fluid? 

SIENA: Yeah, so I think that then that’s what it was. Okay. Yeah. And then there were just things that it was like that where things just kept coming up, and I was just constantly my whole pregnancy was really monitored. 

KIONA: So how did you feel throughout your pregnancy? Did you feel healthy? Did you feel fit outside of these concerns that your providers had? 

SIENA: Yeah, I was working, so I worked the night shift at Starbucks. I was on my feet a lot, so I think that that was actually good. I walked a lot because I was taking the bus and all that, so I felt healthy and fit versus in my other pregnancies, my hips. Oh, Lord. The second time, the third time, I guess it was really the third time because even, I guess the second time around, my hips yeah, during pregnancy, they started hurting, but I remember the third time around, it was like before I was even showing, really, my hips were hurting. 

KIONA: So was that like pubic synthesis pain, or was it more like in your hip-specific? 

SIENA: Yeah, it was my hips. I even went to go see on my third I even went to go see a pelvic floor therapist to just help strengthen, because I feel like I just. It was not so so soon, but fairly close together than getting pregnant again. And I didn’t really restrengthen my body, which isn’t a thing, obviously, for most women. We don’t talk about restrengthening our bodies after we give birth, but that’s something that… 

KIONA: at least not in a positive way. 

SIENA: Oh, yeah, exactly. And when I say strengthening, I don’t mean like getting fit, like your body, how it looks. I’m talking about your urinary tract.

KIONA: Right. Your pelvic floor.

SIENA: and your ligaments. Yeah.

KIONA: Yeah. So when your doctors told you that you needed to be induced with Iam, I’m assuming Iam was a hospital birth, since there needed to be so much observation. Yeah? 

SIENA: Yeah, it was a hospital birth at the University of Maryland Hospital in Baltimore City. 

KIONA: Okay, and how many weeks were you when they said that you needed to become induced or be induced? 

SIENA: That was at 37 weeks. 

KIONA: 37 weeks. 

SIENA: Yeah. 

KIONA: So at least you were term. 

SIENA: I was term. 

KIONA: Silver lining. 

SIENA: And I feel like they waited. I feel like they knew, oh, around this time, we’re probably going to induce. But they never had those conversations because literally, right when I turned 37 weeks, I went for monitoring. And then they’re like, we’re going to induce. And I’m just like, I have to go to work tomorrow. I remember that was the first phone call I made.

KIONA: You’re like, I can’t come into work anymore. Wow. Okay. So how was Iam’s labor for you? 

SIENA: It was so brief. 

KIONA: Did you have a trial of labor at all or was it straight to C-Section? 

SIENA: No, I did have a trial of labor. I was induced and then I was in there on the bed, and I was like I remember I was so uncomfortable. And I’m just like, laying on the bed on my back, squeezing the railing when I have a contraction. But it wasn’t super intense. It was really just the beginning. I feel like it probably had only been a couple of hours gone by, but then his heart rate already was starting to drop. And then the conversation comes of C-section that wasn’t emergent. It was just more like for me, it sounded like it was more safe for the baby to get out versus and like the C-section would be more risky for me, but safer for the baby. So that was like my mindset, and I was like, okay, well, I’m going to just do the C-section. 

KIONA: Yeah. And then bouncing over to your pregnancy with Aura, how was that? How was finding out that you were pregnant with Aura and everything? 

SIENA: Aura? So it was so surprising because her father I was just like, seeing we were not serious at all. And so her pregnancy very stressed the entire thing. I feel like it was almost a little bit traumatic because I felt so alone during that time. I had no friends. I was in Seattle and now I’m with this man, and it’s just like it didn’t feel good. I didn’t feel supported. And that was really, really hard. And I was left alone a lot. And I think that I just felt so isolated. It was really hard. 

KIONA: Yeah. So it sounds like the pregnancy was not expected, it wasn’t planned. It was just, oh, hey, here we are.

SIENA: Yeah, so that was really hard. But that is when I started learning about doulas and things like that. And I became at that time, I was working for Alaska Airlines and I worked in accounting, so I was at a desk all day and then I was learning like, that’s bad. So I got a ball and I would sit backward on a chair at work or stand up and a lot, and I would literally, for my eight-hour day, just listen to birth stories or podcasts about birth, just constantly. And then I became obsessed with it. 

KIONA: Nice. Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s really good. It sounds like you did what you needed to do to find the information and the resources that you needed with, you know,  feeling a little bit of isolation and feeling alone. You found a community within, like, podcasts 

SIENA: Yeah, Yeah, 

KIONA: And birth stories and things like that, because you could relate in some way. 

SIENA: Yeah. 

KIONA: And then so throughout her, like, aura’s pregnancy and. It was. Were there any health concerns with her pregnancy at all? 

SIENA: No, I was seeing the midwives at Swedish Hospital in Issaquah, which was I chose that hospital because it was so beautiful up there and the rooms are so beautiful and they have these big tubs and it felt good. Um, yeah, but I didn’t have any health concerns. It was a super healthy pregnancy other than my mental health. But physically I feel like it was really smooth. But that’s definitely when the hip thing started to but that’s typical, not being able to turn over in bed, all that stuff. But I just know that that is one of the things that I dread the most with pregnancy. 

KIONA: The hip pain?

SIENA: Yes!

KIONA: Yeah, I can see that for sure. You’re like, I love growing a human. The birth, I can do. that’s like mental preparation. But the whole getting to the birth and feeling the pain and dealing with symptoms is not very fun sometimes 

SIENA: Yeah. it’s a lot. 

KIONA: Yeah. So how was Aura’s pregnancy and was there a difference in care that you felt you experienced with the providers with Iam versus with Aura? 

SIENA: Oh, yeah. So it was really nice seeing the midwives. Since I was a VBAC, I did have to be approved, basically by OBGYN first, so they had to look at my records and all that to make sure that I would be a quote-unquote good candidate for VBAC. And so. I was, apparently, and yeah,  it was still midwives within a hospital setting, which is still very different from midwives out of hospital setting, because I had out-of-hospital birth with my third, which I think that, is just the ultimate, my favorite version. And I will say favorite because the care of the midwives, the home birth midwives, so different. The birth experience is so different. But then I also have to account for, I already had two children by that time, so obviously, it’s going to be a little bit safer feeling.

KIONA: Right, because you kind of knew what to expect. You knew what labor could be like.

SIENA: Yeah. 

KIONA: So birthing Aura, how was that process? Was your labor quicker? I guess you didn’t have a full trial of labor with Iam. So how long was Aura’s birth for you? 

SIENA: So Aura I had so much prodromal labor. And prodromal labor is when you’re laboring, I guess in the old school, they would call it false labor, right? But it’s like a labor that can happen. And it is labor. It’s doing something. We’re having contractions, but maybe they’re irregular or they stop and start things like that. And so I have that for the first day and night or for one day and night with aura. And it would start in the evening and then it would go on at night. And then by the time the sun is rising, it kind of is like fizzled out. So that can be very exhausting. And then by the next day, it was kind of that on and off, and then by the evening, same thing. And when it’s like 02:00 a.m.. Or something that night, I was really in the throes of it by that time. By this time, it’s like, this has got to be labor. And if it’s not, I’m getting an epidural. That was like my kind of mindset. By that time, I had stopped, I had been timing all the contractions, I stopped doing all that. I was just like, Forget it, I don’t care anymore. And once the sun started coming up, I had taken a shower in and out of the bath. And I just remember being in my son’s room on his bunk bed, like wrapped up in my towel. And I was like, I’m going to the hospital and I’m getting an epidural because I’ve been doing this for too long. I’m ready. Because I felt like it was the same old, but that was actually going to lead me into having Aura. It never stopped after that. 

KIONA: That’s good. So did you end up getting an epidural with Aura then? 

SIENA: No, I didn’t. I got to the hospital and I was 4. Then we went into the room and my Doula met us there and I got in the tub and she was doing the hip squeezes where they squeeze the Doula or support person will squeeze your hips together. That counter pressure. And I felt like that was the only thing that was getting me through the contractions. And I got on the ball. I don’t know if I actually asked for the epidural. I think I had just put that on my mind and then I kind of forgot about it once I got to the hospital. Yeah, I was actually sitting on the ball once I got out of the tub. Oh, and before the tub, my Doula tried to put the TENS unit on me. And I just remember how cold those things felt on my back. And she turned it on and I was like, uh-uh, take this off.

KIONA: Yeah, because when you first put that’s a tool that we actually haven’t talked about on the podcast yet, which is a TENS unit. I’ll put a link in the description of what a TENS unit actually is just for the listeners. A TENS unit is exactly what it sounds like, but what it’s used for is, there are adhesive sticky pads. It’s usually either two or four sticky pads connected to a little remote. And this remote has the controls of on and off as well as pulsing or consistent. And what it does is it sends little electrical nervous stimulations through your body, and you get to change, like, how intense that is. And it utilizes the Gates theory. And the Gates theory is when the stimulation from the TENS unit takes in some of your or blocks some of your pain receptors, so it makes it easier or more bearable to go through the surges or contractions that you’re having. So that’s a really awesome tool to have in labor. I use it a ton as a doula, but yes. Siena, I totally relate to how cold the adhesive little sticky pads feel when you first put them on.

SIENA:  Yeah, I remember that like it was yesterday. Yeah, so that then the tub, then I was on the ball, and then on the ball, I’m just laboring. And then the nurse is like, Are you pushing? Are you pushing? Because I start changing the way that I’m sounding. Now that I’m a doula, I obviously change the way that I’m sounding, but I don’t really consciously know that I’m pushing. I’m just, like, *grunting noise* breathing like that. And the nurse keeps asking me that, and I’m like, I don’t know. And Chris, my partner, had just left to go to Starbucks, so he was no longer in the room anymore. And now I’m pushing. And they were like, okay. And they’re calling everyone and putting me on the bed and making me be in a certain way. And that was the only part of that experience that made it not positive. Because I feel like I could have just stayed on that ball and I would have did less damage to my pelvic floor. Because once they put me there, I felt like I had a job to do, and I had to just push her out as hard and fast as I could. And that damaged my pelvic floor. Still, to this day, I have to have it repaired, and I haven’t because I actually tore. But I think it was more like… what are the different rates of tearing that they’re like? 

KIONA: Like first through third-degree, fourth-degree tears?

SIENA: Yeah, I think it was more than what they thought in terms of the degree because it was one of those things where they were like, oh, it will heal on its own. Just keep your legs close, don’t open and try to spread as much, spread your legs and stuff like that. So I was like, okay. 

KIONA: So just to clarify for the listeners, from my memory, I will put some kind of link to the actual definitions of the degrees of tearing. But from my memory, I believe that a first-degree tear is just like really slight. Like you tore some skin at your vaginal opening and then a second-degree tear is that it just tore just like that, but a little bit deeper, which is the most common tear for a first-time parent is a second-degree tear. And then the third-degree tear is when it tears all the way to your anus. So all the way to your anal opening, but not through your anal opening. But then the fourth-degree tear is when it does go through like it does go through the anal wall as well, and the rectal wall. Usually first-degree tears, most of the time if there’s a tear, it does get sutured, but also, depending on the provider, first-degree tears don’t always need to be sutured, and some second-degree tears don’t either. So what you said makes sense is some providers say it will heal naturally on its own and look just as beautiful if you just don’t sit crisscross or if you keep your legs together as, as possible when you’re sitting on your bed or the couch and things like that. 

SIENA: Yeah, and ummm…maybe I didn’t do that, I don’t remember, but I just know that that tear. It did tear into the muscle, and it was never repaired. And I feel like it should have been. And I felt so much pressure for so much time. I thought that I had, like, a prolapse. And I went and saw a pelvic therapist, and nobody said anything was wrong, but I knew that something was wrong, and nobody actually confirmed it until my third pregnancy. I told my midwife, and she did a vaginal exam, and she was like, yes, it’s into the muscle. And someone has to like she was like, I’ll be able to repair it if you tear again in this area. But if you don’t, then you have to have an OBGYN reopen and repair. That is what I have to do. I have to have that done because it’s. It’s something that is significant to me. That is the really big downfall of my second birth is I wasn’t able to just push how I wanted. And when you’re in that state of pushing, it’s like, one of the most vulnerable states. Even the last stage of labor, that transition time. A lot of women will be like, do like they kind of, like, are shut down sometimes where it’s like if you ask them what to do or if they have to make a decision, they’re like, I don’t know. I don’t know. So you kind of just go with whatever someone tells you to do or you go with what you’re feeling. Right? So once I got put on that bed, I just was, like, going with pushing as hard as I could, and yeah, that wasn’t the most helpful thing. 

KIONA: Yeah. And pushing that hard for that long can definitely result in a prolapse and it seems like it did that in your case as well. 

SIENA: I mean, I pushed, it was fast, but I think it was just how hard. 

KIONA: Yeah, so a prolapse for the listeners is when either your cervix or vaginal muscles could actually come out or be very close to coming out of your vaginal opening. And there are ways to heal that and prevent that, but that is what a prolapse is. There’s cervical prolapse, uterine prolapse, vaginal wall prolapse, or vaginal muscle prolapse. So. It’s a possibility. And so, when you found out you were pregnant with Dila, how was that for you? 

SIENA: It was exciting because I had already been a doula now by this point, and obsessed with pregnancy and everything. And so the cycle before that, I had thought I really thought I was pregnant. And it wasn’t planned or anything, but I got excited about it, like, okay. But then it turned out I wasn’t pregnant, and I was so disappointed. And then the next cycle actually got pregnant. I didn’t plan it, though. Maybe subconsciously, I don’t know. But I got pregnant after that, and so I was excited. And I always say Dila was my first conscious, really conscious pregnancy. Even the work I was doing. I was working at a yoga studio that was catered to birth and pregnancy. It was just totally different. And so I chose home birth with her, and I made a lot of different choices and felt more confident in my choices with her. 

KIONA: And so throughout your pregnancy with her, you were surrounded by all of this positive energy around birth then? In relation to birth.

SIENA: Totally. And I was even still attending births, probably up until like, five or six months pregnant. It was after this one birth where I don’t know what it was, if it was like the energy in the room or the hormones were transferring energetically and overwhelming me or what it was. But she was pushing and I’m holding her leg, and all of a sudden I start to feel like I’m going to faint. It wasn’t even the sight of it, because I’ve seen that so many times in so many different ways, but it was just like I don’t know, I literally just started and I’m like, Dang. It kind of felt like that feeling of, did I not eat enough? Am I like, dehydrated? What’s going on? So I had to ask the midwife, like, can you take her hand or her foot? Which is all embarrassing. So I’m thinking she’s probably like, what kind of doula is scared of the sight?

KIONA: Yeah

SIENA: So that was the last birth I attended while pregnant. Don’t recommend doing lots of doula work while pregnant but to each of their own. 

KIONA: Yeah, to each their own. 

SIENA: I know you did. I definitely did it for a while. Yeah, I did it for a while. But I will say it was harder. It was harder the further along in my pregnancy that I got. It was definitely harder because, I can’t remember if it was, I want to say that it was, when I was pregnant with Kairo, I attended a birth because I was birth assisting as well, and I was, like, well into my third trimester. And I went to this birth, and I realized that postpartum, I would start leaking when the client would be breastfeeding or when they would push their baby out or would be contracting when they’re pushing. 

SIENA: Oh my god! 

KIONA: And I know I’m not, like, in labor, but that oxytocin really gets to you, and you’re just like, oh, dang this Braxton-Hick is something else. you know! 

SIENA: oh, my God, that’s crazy. 

KIONA: Yeah, but I was trying to get all the births under my belt before I had Kairo

SIENA: Oh my goodness, wow. 

KIONA: How different would you say your care was with Dila’s providers and how her birth went versus auras? Because they’re both midwives and Aura’s was in hospital midwives. Dila was out of hospital midwives. How was the difference there? 

SIENA: So it obviously felt less clinical, because the setting that I’m going into with DLA for my prenatal appointments is it’s like a nice, comfy, spacious waiting room, and they have tea and everyone’s I don’t know. They got the baby books on the wall, and it feels welcoming and not like a doctor’s office. And then the appointment times are longer, and they’re more conversational. There’s even toys that they had for the little it was Aura at that time to play with. And so I think that it’s just that relationship building that doesn’t really exist as much with hospital midwives. So, yeah, I think that was the biggest difference.

KIONA: Yeah. And I remember, actually, I was hoping and trying my hardest to be your doula for your pregnancy with Dila. And then during your due week, I think it was like two days before you had Dila. Kavina had a cold and a cough, and I was like, oh, my gosh. And it was, like, prime COVID time. So I was like, I don’t know what to do here. What do we do? I don’t even think tests were available yet, so we were just winging it. And I was so scared to potentially expose you if Kavina did have COVID, and so she did not. But she had a fever and everything, and I was like, man, I’m not trying to bring whatever sickness is in my house to this house, like your house with your family and a brand new baby. And so, luckily, the wonderful Mercedes was able to cover for me. But she barely made it to you. 

SIENA: I know! That birth went very quickly. 

KIONA: Yeah, let’s talk about that birth and see how it was like when you realized you were in labor to when she came. 

SIENA: So same thing with I didn’t mention this, but so things that can induce labor. Or help, I’ll say instead of induced labor, because that’s not a good thing to say. Things that can help get your body ready or push you over the edge into labor are red raspberry leaf tea and some nice old-fashioned sex and semen. And so that’s what I did with Aura, and it pushed me into labor, and that’s what I did with Dila. And it pushed me into labor. And with Dila, I was kind of cramping all night long, but by that time, it was kind of like I mean, I know not everyone is regularly having sex, but I had had sex enough during my pregnancy to know that that cramping was kind of normal after sex for me, and just feeling really just generally uncomfortable. And at the end of pregnancy, everything is uncomfortable anyway. So all night, I just kind of felt uncomfortable, and then I realized that the discomfort was coming in waves. And so I’m like, okay, I’m having early labor contractions. And it was so light that I was like, can. It’s just early labor contractions. And this is at like 08:00 A.m.

So I’m like, okay, I don’t even know if we should fill up or blow up the tub. Chris is like, okay, he’s making breakfast and I put the music on and I’m making like Instagram videos. Hey, I’m in labor and this is my update. And I just remember starting to feel nauseous and things like that after maybe 2 hours after waking up. And I got to a point where I was dancing to, I was dancing to something. I was dancing oh, to a Beyonce song in the kitchen. And I think I was doing too much hip movement or something because after that it felt way in times and I was like, oh my God. And that’s when I was like, no, you need to blow up the tub. And by that time it was just too late. So I’m assuming that was probably around like 11:45 or something. And that must have been transition. It was like a clear…because I made my way into my dark cave of the bathroom and I just sat on the toilet and I remember dropping my phone and I’m, like, helpless. I can’t reach for it because it’s so much pain. But I’m trying to call my midwife. So I call her and then after I call her, I get into the tub. And Dila was born at twelve, so I guess I called my midwife around eleven or 12:12 or something like that or 11:50 or something, but… 

KIONA: Yeah, really close. 

SIENA: Yeah, so. And I don’t even think when did I even call Mercedes? I hadn’t even thought about calling her because I thought it was still, like, early. I didn’t know. 

KIONA: I actually, I actually don’t know if you called. Yeah, because I think I was texting you. I think I was texting you and I was like, hey, I see Siena is in labor on Instagram. Have you connected with her and stuff and, so I don’t know what actually ended up happening. I think I was texting you a little bit, maybe. But all I know is somehow I was like, Mercedes, you should probably check on her. She’s not responding to me. 

SIENA: Yeah 

KIONA: I think that’s what it was. And then she got a hold of you or just showed up, I don’t know. 

SIENA: Yeah, because my previous labor had been so long, I was like, this is going to be long. I mean, that was like from I’ll say seven to twelve to like five or 6 hours. Whereas before it was literally two days. One night on and off, and then the next day a little bit on and off at night. So I thought I was going to be this. I just was like, labor is long. 

KIONA: Yeah. So did your midwife end up making it? 

SIENA: She made it literally right when I was pushing. 

KIONA: MMM. And then I think Mercedes made it, like, maybe five minutes before your midwife. 

SIENA: Yeah.

KIONA: Okay, man. Yeah. Birth is so different each time, right? 

SIENA: So different each time. 

KIONA: Yeah. So, you told us all three of your birth stories. Did you end up breastfeeding all three of your babes or formula feeding or what was your feeding choice with your babies? 

SIENA: Yeah, so I did I breastfed. I did breastfeed with Iam. He stayed in the NICU. So he was born actually at 3lbs 15oz, like, just almost 4lbs. So he was pretty small. He stayed in the NICU for four weeks. But I was coming and visiting every day as much as I could in breastfeeding, and I was pumping, but he was obviously having supplement, and we were struggling with breastfeeding. I was using a nipple shield, and I didn’t want to explain this, but a nipple shield is like plastic or silicone. Is it silicone? 

KIONA: It’s silicone, yeah. 

SIENA: It’s like silicone. It looks like a nipple and you put it over your own and it can kind of, like, pull it out. Especially if you have flat nipples to help baby latch. Or some people I’ve even heard use it to protect their nipple. I don’t know how great that is, but that could be an option. 

KIONA: I’ve heard that as well. And I think it’s kind of to each their own, because some people feel like rather than having baby latch onto their nipple directly, they’ll try to save their nipple when it’s, like, sore, and they use a nipple shield because it just suctions. I’ve never used one, but I’ve been told that there’s still some friction with the suction with the nipple shield. But sometimes it’s easier for baby to latch onto a nipple shield because it’s firmer and has more of, like, a point versus the rounded nipple prior to latching. So or like an inverted nipple. It’s used a lot for inverted nipples or flat nipples. 

SIENA: Yeah, so I had that and was using it. And when he came home, though, we immediately had no problems with breastfeeding. It was just it was smooth sailing from there. 

KIONA: Beautiful.

SIENA: And then I breastfed him for nine months. 

KIONA: Nice. And how old was he when he came home again? 

SIENA: About a month old. Like four weeks? Yeah. 

KIONA: Nice. That’s awesome. Good. It’s good to hear that he was able to stay in the NICU and get the resources that he needed, and then you were able to bring him home and everything worked out great. 

SIENA: Yeah, we still had a successful breastfeeding relationship, even with all the formula and pacifiers. 

KIONA: Yeah. That’s awesome. And then you breastfed Aura and Dila? 

SIENA: Aura? I breastfed her until she was two 

KIONA: oh okay.

SIENA: And Dila. I breastfed her … right… March. April, like, right before her second birthday, like the month before, because she’s so big. It was getting like, okay, get off. I need my body. I was like, God, I’ve been breastfeeding because felt like I was breastfeeding forever. 

KIONA: It takes a lot on you. Yeah. I’m still breastfeeding Katana right now, and so I’m just like oh okay…

SIENA: I don’t think I’ve known you ever not breastfeeding. 

KIONA: Yeah, no, yeah, I’ve been breastfeeding for a long time.

SIENA: Yeah yeah, but it is a beautiful thing. And even my six-year-old still will be, like, trying to push on my boob or uncover my shirt sometimes. All funny. Now she’s funny about it. Talking about booby and all this stuff. Boob. Yeah. So the breast obsession, I don’t know if it’s ever going to leave. I can’t wait till they just grow their own breasts and they can be obsessed with their own. We’re having a boob fest recently, mainly this week in the house where my daughters are just talking about boobs all the time. 

KIONA: So fun. Yeah. I’ll be like, you’ll have them yourself one day? 

SIENA: Yes. 

KIONA: That’s awesome. So during your postpartum periods with all three of your babies, did you have one where there was more family support or no family support or how was postpartum support for you with your babies? 

SIENA: Um, so I had really great postpartum support. I feel like with Aura and with Dila. With Dila, it was just extra because, one, it was COVID. So my partner, Chris, he is a comedian, so he was not able to do any comedy, which was, like, amazing for that time. Him, he was stuck in the house with me. And then I had also got a postpartum doula, so I had that and it was really nice. And then with Or, I had support too, because Chris’s mom came and I remember he would always give me breakfast in bed. And with Dila, I was really strict with the bed thing because with Aura, I felt like I had to be up because Chris’s brother lived with us at the time, and I felt like he would judge me if I was not… okay. I deal with anxiety, so this is, like, extreme, too. And then I was like, postpartum. So I think it was extreme, but I felt like he would judge me for laying down too much after a week and a half had gone by and that he would be thinking in his mind, like, Siena is so lazy. What is she doing? When really know I needed to be resting because I was feeling that heaviness that I mentioned earlier from my pelvic floor. So that’s why with my second or I say my second, because it was like my vaginal birth, right? But with Dila, my third child, I really rested. Even when I felt like I don’t really need I really felt like I don’t need to be in bed anymore. I was like, when my doula gets here, that’s my time to be in bed. I’m not going to get up at all if my Doula is here. So I remember doing things around the house, and then my doula would get there and be like, oh, now I have to stay in bed. And I would just stay in bed the whole time. 

KIONA: Awesome. Yeah, that’s good. Do you want to give shout-outs to your doulas, your birth doulas, and your postpartum doulas? 

SIENA:  I don’t I honestly don’t even remember who my postpartum was. So Lord forgive me. Postpartum doula. I remember she was wonderful, though, because she was doing a really reasonable rate for me because she was using my postpartum time as one of her certifying things. 

KIONA: Right, yeah. 

SIENA:  So that was really nice. And then, of course, Mercedes was there for my third with Dela, and she was really helpful for that immediate postpartum time, feeding me the broths and making sure that I had that because I had prepared a bunch of stuff. 

KIONA: Okay, so Mercedes was there for Dila, and then do you remember the name of your birth doula when you had Aura? 

SIENA: Yeah, so that was oh, my goodness, no. I do know… Elaine. What was her last name? We loved her, and I remember Chris was so grateful to have her there because it was his first child and everything. So I think he really felt supported with her presence, and he would attend the prenatal meetings and things like that. So I think that was just really helpful for him and it helped him have the information that he needed and feel comfortable and learn about birth and things like that because he didn’t know nothing about any of that. And I had already had a child and I’m all into the birth thing by that time, and so he got into it too. So even now to this day, he will talk to people about birth. And of course, I’m a doula, so it’s extreme, but he is obviously picking up on those things and talking to people about birth. So I love that. 

KIONA: Awesome. That’s great. Well, thank you for sharing your stories with us. I just want to close off with two questions. Do you have a resource that I can share with the listeners on your behalf? What’s the first thing that comes to mind? 

SIENA: Yeah. Has anyone shared evidence-based birth yet? 

KIONA: Someone has shared evidence-based birth podcast, but I could share it again for sure. 

SIENA: Yeah. So evidence-based birth or not the podcast, but their website where they have the easy to read information, evidence-based information on all those different choices that you have in the hospital, like intermittent monitoring and different infant routines or interventions and things like that. And so I think that’s a great resource because it is just research and it makes it easy to understand and read. And so that’s why I always recommend evidence-based birth.  

KIONA: Yeah, it’s definitely a good resource, for sure. So the last question I’ll ask you is, through all of these birth experiences, what is one word that you would use to define how you felt through them? 

SIENA: Complete. 

KIONA: Beautiful. Well, thank you again, Sienna, so much for being on the podcast, and it’s been nice to connect and to catch up. 

SIENA: Yeah, you’re so welcome. Thank you for having me. Of course. 

KIONA: Interviewing Sienna was such a chill time. I don’t know how else to explain it, but she has just a beautiful, relaxed soul, and hearing her stories was so amazing. She also reminded me of the importance of, you know, she had mentioned a couple of times that her partner Chris really enjoyed having a doula and it just reminded me to put out there into the world that doulas can be for partners too, and not just the birthing people. 

Next week, I’m really excited to share the birth story of one of my good friends named Rita Shakarov. She gave birth to a beautiful baby girl named Raiya. Her birth story has a lot of ups and downs, but it just goes to show that birth doesn’t always turn out as expected. So tune in next week to hear the details on that. 

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. Don’t hesitate to share this with your family and friends. If you liked this episode, feel free to leave a review so my podcast can pop up for others and they can see and listen to it as well. If you have a birth story or experience you would want to share on The Birth As We Know It podcast, head over to Kionanessenbaum.com and fill out the guest request form. That is Kionanessenbaum.com. I look forward to connecting with you again soon. Bye for now.

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