Photo credit: Brittany Carol Photography
Description:
In this episode, Lindsay speaks on the assumptions people make when they find out you have gone through the route of adoption to grow your family. She also talks about what it was like to find the two different local families that she matched with in order to grow her family from two to four in less than two years time.
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.
For more episodes related to adoption check out episode 70-Morgan Harvey-2 Vaginal Births-NICU-Beyond Birthing Doula-Adoptee
Resources:
- Lindsay Bruggeman-The Hopeful HAP: https://www.thehelpfulhap.com/home
- Breast Milk App-Share The Drop: https://sharethedrop.com/
- Perinatal Support of Washington: https://perinatalsupport.org/
- Postpartum Support International: https://www.postpartum.net
Definitions:
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Photo credit: Brittany Carol Photography
Transcription of Episode 73:
Intro 0:08
Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I’ve realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you’re ready. With that said, let’s prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space.
Disclaimer 1:06
As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your license provider.
Kiona 1:25
Before we dive into this episode today, I just wanted to say thank you so much for tuning in to the Birth As We Know It podcast. I really appreciate you tuning in as often as you can to listen to these amazing stories. And if you want to participate even further with the podcast and the community, you can join the Birth As We Know It Facebook group by going to
birthasweknowitpodcast.com/community. I would love to be able to connect with you directly and really get to know you as a listener. Now when it comes to this specific episode today, we’re doing something a little bit different, and that is because Lindsay is an adoptive parent, which means she did not have these children biologically, but was birthed into parenthood via adoption. So I’m really excited to share her stories with you today. If you do end up liking this episode, I highly suggest you also listen to one of our more recent episodes, Episode 70, with Morgan Harvey. In that episode, Morgan talks about what it’s like to be an adoptee and how that impacts her decisions in parenthood. All right, let’s dive into this episode for today.
Hello everybody, an welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast Today I am excited to have on Lyndsey Bruggeman, who is an adoptive mom of two happily married and very passionate about adoption, and she also uses social media to talk about how others can use social media to find an adoptive connection. So Lindsay, thank you so much for coming on today. I am super excited to dive into your story.
Lindsay 3:02
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.
Kiona 3:04
Yes. So let’s dive in by talking about Who is in your little family right now?
Lindsay 3:12
So my husband, Clayton and I have been married for about three and a half years, And then our oldest, Jace, is 21 months old. He’ll be two in November, and our youngest, Jesse, is going to be one in October. So he’s ten months old. So that means that I had two babies at one time. We were very fortunate to adopt both of our boys locally and we brought them both home from the hospital and they have been with us ever since. And it’s just been the most amazing journey. It has not been all rainbows and butterflies. Adoption can be super hard, but it’s super beautiful and we just feel so very fortunate.
Kiona 3:53
Yes, I love that all of that information is actually so intriguing. And all of that information can also end up different for someone else who adopts. Right. Like not everybody would adopt locally. Not everybody would even adopt infants like fresh from birth. So there’s so many moving parts here that I would love to dive into. So the first question I have is what brought you to adoption?
Lindsay 4:19
Yeah. So this is like my favorite question because most people just assume that people pursue adoption because of infertility. And so often that is the case, but that’s not actually our story. Adoption is just something I have always been super passionate about and it’s been something I’ve said since I was a kid that I want to adopt someday. And I don’t know if biological children will be part of my story or not, but adopted will be and that was something very kind of interesting to explain in any dating relationship that got serious was like, Listen, I don’t know about biological kids, but I definitely want to adopt. I know that’s not traditional, and people probably didn’t really expect me to say that. But my husband, when we were dating, was super supportive of it, and I was kind of like, Oh, okay, that’s good. I just I truly think it’s just something that God had planned for me and eventually us. And when we had been married, not quite a year, my husband’s sister had a baby about six months after we were married, and that was the first baby we had either one spent a significant amount of time around and we were like, Oh wow, maybe this wouldn’t be so bad. Like we might be ready to start a family. So we were like, well, We talked about doing adoption and that’s where we’re going to start. And we dove right in. We started researching, called attorneys, got connected, asked other people that we knew that had adopted and started learning about the process
Kiona 5:51
Yeah, I think that is so awesome. First off, that is amazing because you’re correct, many people have the assumption that adoption is because of infertility or struggling to have their own biological children. I was so intrigued to ask that question because I was curious if that was the case. You know, so I know that many of my listeners would be curious if that’s the case and some people will turn to adoption for that. But I love hearing that that wasn’t the case for you because it can also just be a choice and not something that feels like it’s the only option.
Lindsay 6:24
Right. Absolutely.
Kiona 6:26
Yeah. Awesome. So tell me a little bit more about how you chose the families that you were adopting from, because prior to recording, you had stated that you actually did not use an agency,
Lindsay 6:39
Yeah, so in adoption, the expectant parents choose the adoptive parents. And currently in America, there are far many more hopeful adoptive parents than there are people trying to make adoption plans for their children. So we were chosen and not not necessarily the other way around. But what we did was just put ourselves out there. We use Facebook and eventually our oldest son’s bio. Mom came across our profile and I haven’t specifically asked her what it is that drew her to us, but she did say that we seemed trustworthy and it helped that we were local and friendly from the first time she reached out. So looking back on those days, I mean, it’s only been just over two years ago that she first connected with us. She was only four or five months pregnant and it was very intimidating. I’m sure for all of us. It was kind of like, you want to be your true and authentic self because you want this person to get to know who you are and what kind of family you can provide.But you also don’t want to say something that would make them not like you.
Kiona 7:47
Right.
Lindsay 7:48
But at the end of the day, we just went into every conversation and meeting as genuine and true to ourselves as we could be and said, you know, if this is the situation for us, then it will be. And we were very excited to find out that it was. So we knew her for probably about a month. We had been messaging back and forth, maybe a month and a half, and we had met one time and she said she was thinking about adoption but wasn’t entirely sure if that was going to be the path for her yet or not. And we said, Will we support you? Like if you choose to parent this child, that’s beautiful and we support you. And if you choose adoption we’re here and we’d love to be considered. And so I think that was a big piece of it was just that we tried really hard not to be pushy. We tried really hard to be supportive. She had questions about the process. The father was not really in the picture, and so she wondered about his rights and legal questions that we couldn’t even answer. But we did have an attorney already, so that was one of our very first steps was contracting with a local attorney so that if a situation came up, we were kind of ready and he’s great. He is the most compassionate person I’ve ever met in my life, and he’s well past retirement age and just doing adoption law because he enjoys it. And so we’re so very fortunate to have come across him and been able to work with him for both of our adoptions. But we just got her in contact with him, got her questions answered, and she saw that we cared for her and he cared for her and told us after we brought baby home from the hospital, that she just knew this was meant to be and that she was thankful we all connected. So it certainly was. You know, at times awkward and uncomfortable for us and undoubtedly very hard for her. But it’s still such a beautiful thing. And so that’s something that I’ve learned about adoption, is it’s a both and it can be uncomfortable and difficult, but it can also be beautiful and just something that you come to love and appreciate so much.
Kiona 9:53
absolutely . I love how you went in as your true genuine self. You’re like, I want this family or this person to see me and my husband for all of who we are. And so they’re making like a valid choice and then just being open to the fact that especially without going through an agency, I think it could, you know, make it a little bit harder with the choice of like, after this baby is born, do I still want to parent this child or not? Because with agencies, there’s different kinds of contracts like and tell me if I’m wrong. These are some assumptions that I’m making just along the lines of talking to people that have done adoptions. Is, when you go through an agency, there’s contracts that are signed to make sure that once the baby’s born, you still follow through. But I know there is like a certain amount of time I want to say it like 72 hours for the birthing parent to give away their rights. Is that correct?
Lindsay 10:47
So it depends on the state in Ohio, where we are and where she is. That is the case. It is 72 hours. we actually we were released from the hospital the day after he was born and we had a power of attorney in place that she agreed to ahead of time so we could take him home and that she wouldn’t be taking him home. And I think that just made it easier for her. But she could have definitely changed her mind. And then just because he was born right around Thanksgiving and the courts were closed and things were funky, it ended up being a week later that we went to court and she signed for placement with us. And so that was when she kind of signed over her rights. But then the adoption in Ohio can’t be finalized until after the baby is six months old. And it’s just kind of the state doing their job to keep checking on us. And we had already had a approved home study and all that. But just to make sure, you know, that we were good parents and the child was well taken care of and safe and all of that. So that was monthly home visits and all that until we could have our finalization hearing. But her piece of it was just those first few days. But yeah, we just, you know, we wanted to make sure that she was dignified and respected throughout the whole process. And there are some resources that an agency could provide in a situation like that, different counseling and other things. But in Ohio, you work so closely with social workers through adoption that we just made sure that our home study social worker and the social worker she’d be working with and all the attorneys involved were experienced and educated and ethical to make sure that she could get what she needed. So the state does require her to be offered counseling and things like that. And I’m just I think Ohio’s just a very adoption friendly state that wants to dignify and respect both parties, the expectant parents and the adoptive parents and it seems like most states are that way. And now theres that, some of the laws might be a little outdated or just funky. But in Ohio, I think both sides are really well taken care of. And I will say with agencies, from what I’ve learned in this, is not having worked with one they can be great in, they can provide extra resources beyond what the state requires. But then some of them, just because it becomes a mundane day to day thing that level of care and concern isn’t always automatically there just with an agency. So if anybody out there listening is interested in adoption, if you go with an agency or an attorney like we did or whatever you do, it’s so, so important to vet any provider and make sure that they have high ethical standards and lots of experience.
Kiona 13:29
Yeah, I think that’s super important to mention as well, because just like people that are carrying their babies themselves and plan on birthing their babies, you are interviewing providers to, you know, to see what fits with you and meets all of your requirements and needs. And I think it’s important to mention that that’s still necessary for adoptive parents because, you want to make sure that both your emotions and the emotions of the expectant parent are validated, as well as taken into consideration throughout the entire process. So
Lindsay 14:02
Absolutely.
Kiona 14:03
Yeah. So my next question is, did you happen to be involved at all throughout the pregnancy of this expectant parent?
Lindsay 14:14
Yeah. So she was really great. And this was not her first pregnancy. She is parenting older children, so she had kind of been through it before and I think that helped because it probably took some of the fear away for her that all first time moms experience. But she did invite me to an ultrasound and she updated me after every appointment. So she first reached out in early July, and then we officially matched in the middle of August. And Baby wasn’t due till December 8th, and he ended up being a couple weeks early. But so there was a good chunk of pretty much the whole fall there that, you know, she was going through the last trimester of pregnancy and planning on adoption with us. And so she was great about including me. And that was so beautiful and just something I appreciate so much I don’t actually get asked that a lot. And so it’s almost like just, you know, it’s been a crazy couple of years adding both of our boys to our family. And so I don’t even think back on that much. But I’m glad you brought it up because the ultrasound I did go to with her it was I mean, i an intimate time and it was it made me want to tear up hearing the baby’s heartbeat and seeing him on the screen. But then you’re also like, okay, don’t cry, because, like, you don’t want to make her cry or upset her in any way.
Kiona 15:35
Right
Lindsay 15:35
But it was super, super sweet of her to include me and helped, I think, a little bit with the bond that we have. I read so much about the benefits of open adoption for the child while we were preparing to adopt, and we’re very fortunate that our children’s bio parents live close enough that we can visit regularly. So we see them multiple times a year. And I just think, that little bit of bonding we had before he was even there is super helpful to our relationship now. it’s a relationship that I hope goes well after he’s 18.
Kiona 16:10
Mmm, I actually really love that. And that is one of the benefits of being local. Right. Being able to go back and visit if you are deciding on open adoption. So it sounds like with both of your boys, they are open adoptions then?
Lindsay 16:24
Yeah. Yup. So for Jace we get together with his bio mom and his older siblings, probably every other month or every three months. And for the first year it was about every month. And then with Jesse, we see both of his bio parents. They’re no longer together, but probably every two or three months as well. And that’s great. Like we’ve met all three of the bio parents parents and some grandparents even. And then my oldest Jace has got bio siblings that I hope he can play with more as he gets older and that was probably a super unexpected and unique experience I guess a lot of times when people think about adoption, they think about like a 16 year old or something like that. And Jace’s bio mom is only two years younger than me. And so she had already been a mother of a newborn. And I feel like I was asking her questions the first couple of months, like, is this normal? It’s probably super backwards What it’s like, Well, you’ve had kids before and this one’s related to them.So like, you would be able to tell me better than anyone. But yeah, it’s great. I never would have been able to imagine my life now with keeping in contact with their bio parents and just having the relationship we do. So it’s not like, you know, we’re besties hanging out every weekend, but, you know, they’ll grow up knowing where they came from. And we’re all on great terms. And I couldn’t ask for anything more than that for them.
Kiona 17:54
I love all of that so much Lindsay. I think that is so amazing. And that right there just sounds super beneficial because of the fact that Jace is going to know that he does have older siblings. He’s going to know what they look like. He’s going to have opportunities to ask them questions. And the fact that you had the full on opportunity to ask his bio parent the questions of is this normal? Like, this is my first go around. This would have been your third go around. Like, I need to know the deets so that I could do this, without freaking out every second
Lindsay 18:31
Right.
Kiona 18:31
to see
Lindsay 18:31
Right.
Kiona 18:32
whether or not it’s like actually, okay. So I love that so much. I love it so much. With visiting them. Do you also participate in like bigger holidays with the bio parents, or is that is that more like nuclear family focused?
Lindsay 18:48
It’s more nuclear family focus, and I don’t know how that’ll change as we go. So with both of them being born in the fall, we’ve had a newborn for both, both like Thanksgiving and Christmases last couple of years. And so I don’t know how that might change things moving forward. I think my husband and I are very fortunate to come from very tight extended families. So we love going here, there and everywhere for the holidays to see everyone, but definitely love opening our home to their bio parents. And if they ever invite us, we do our best to make it. So right now it hasn’t. But we’ll see how that changes as the boys get older.
Kiona 19:27
Yeah, no, I think that’s awesome. Even the fact that it’s a possibility or an option just speaks volumes, because I just imagine that’s when some people do get into adoption. Their hope is to kind of be completely cut off, to like feel like that baby is their baby, and to like, have that feeling of knowing that the baby that they have is part of their family and made their family. So there’s so many different places that people can be pulled into adoption from. So that’s why I’m so intrigued to talk to you because there’s going to be people out there that can relate to what you’re saying. And that’s what I love about this.
Lindsay 20:09
Yeah, I and I get comments like, Oh, Jesse, my younger one, he has blue eyes and around face like I do. And so I get comments like, Oh, he looks like he could be yours. You know, for people that know and like, I don’t take that negatively, but I don’t think it’s the compliment that they think it is because it’s like, I’m not trying to pretend that I birthed him, that he’s biologically related to me. I have no interest in that. And, you know, maybe if I was coming from a place of being unable to have children, I would feel that way more. And so I don’t want to say that if anyone felt that way, it would be invalid. But I am proud of our adoption story and how our family came about. And I don’t have any interest in trying to erase any piece of that. I want them to know where they came from and be proud of it. And I don’t see the value in trying to pretend or cut them off. And, I think adoption in general is moving more that way as people learn more and more about the benefits of open adoption for the children. It’s just like the communities I’m in online, it’s very much that open is best when it’s safe and possible. And I’m excited to see more and more people in that way because I really do like I, I read about the benefits and now I already see them in my own family for the adopted child, the birth parents, and then also me and my husband. Like now we have more people to be in community with, more people to love, more people to be loved by. Like Jesse’s biological grandmother is like the sweetest lady and there were storms in our area a while back and she reached out like, Are you guys okay? And it’s just like, why would I ever not want that? You know, it’s like, who doesn’t need more grandmothers in their life? So it’s just been such a blessing to all of us.
Kiona 21:53
Yes. Okay. That’s great. Oh, my gosh. I’m just continuing to say, Oh, I love that. Like, I just really do, though. Like, I really love the sound of this for you and your family and for the people that you get to be connected with now, So let’s go ahead and dive into what the adoption process looked like for Jessie versus with Jace. So how was your experience with working with Jessie as bio parents?
Lindsay 22:23
So Jesse’s was fast and furious we found out about. So how the connection happened was both of the boys bio moms went to the same O.B. and there was a nurse there. Nurse Jane. She is like a saint in our house. She worked closely with Jace’s bio mom throughout her pregnancy. I think actually her pregnancies before Jace and Jace’s and just was like kind of someone she could lean on. So she knew that we had this adoption and that it was open and that Jason’s bio mom seemed to be enjoying the relationship and things were going well, and Jesse’s bio parents were planning to parent him, but they were very young. And then it got pretty late in pregnancy and some things change with their home situations and they just decided maybe that adoption would be a better option. So they brought that up. I think it’ll be appointment. And Nurse Jane said, Wait, I know some people that have been through this, let’s get you connected with them. So Jace’s bio mom reached out to me and just said, Hey, this nurse knows of a couple that might be interested. Are you guys open to this? And I think she knew that we would love to. A lot of times like waiting to make that connection is the longest piece of an adoption journey. And so we were like, well, jump on the opportunity. You Jace was a really easy baby and we were just so thrilled about how everything was going. And we were like, Yeah, why not? You know, it’s like, we’re definitely open to this. And so Nurse Jane called me at work one day and I was kind of expecting the call because Jace’s bio mom had mentioned that. And so when it came up as a number from their area code, I jumped up and ran outside because I didn’t want anybody to hear. And I almost ran someone over in the process and the service inside of my work office is really bad. So I was like, I got to get outside and I took the call from Nurse Jane. It was a Thursday in September of last year, and she said, Hey, I you know, I’ve talked to Jason’s bio mom about you. You guys seem great. She said you might be interested in another situation and I have this couple. Would you call them? They said that you could call them and I could give you their number. And I was like, Absolutely, yes, that’s great. And so I called my husband right away and told him about it. And we made plans to call them that evening. And it was like the longest couple hours ever waiting to get a hold of them. So we called and they were super peppy and just energetic and I think just as excited about the potential as we were. And that was on Thursday. We made plans to meet on Saturday. His due date was three weeks to the day from that Thursday when we first talked. So they told us the due date and that it was a boy and the town that they lived in. told them a little bit about us, told them how they could find our Facebook page to learn more about us. We made plans to go out and get dinner with them that Saturday, we were super nervous. We took Jace along. He was not quite ten months old and he was just a ham. We had a booth at a mexican restaurant and we put a highchair on the end, so he was sitting there and a little while into dinner they looked at each other and kind of nodded and then looked at us and said, like, We feel really good about this. If you guys feel good, like, let’s go ahead and make this official like this baby’s coming and we’re good. And we were both like, Oh my gosh, Yes. Like that was one of those where we probably should talk. But we were both like, Nope. Like we could tell by the look at each other’s eyes, this is what we want. And Jesse’s bio mom said, You know, I just like, look at Jace and he’s so happy and well taken care of. Like, I feel really good about this. And right when she said that, I look over at Jace, and he was just like leaning forward, licking in the table, and I was like, Oh, okay, great. That’s good timing. But yeah, it was just it was fun. It was great to meet them and learn more about their lives. And then. think we met again for dinner one more time before Jesse was born. And every time we were with them, they were so just energetic and happy. And I felt like, this is good, like real good. And then it was kind of stressful in between those meetings because they aren’t the best communicators with texting or anything. So like, if they make plans, like they’ll show up, everything’s great. But it’s like a gray area. There’s no how to guide when you’re in a situation like this of you’re about to adopt someone’s child, how do you get to know them? You know, like how much is too much? And so I just tried to be kind of casual, like check in. How are you feeling? Like you need anything. sometimes they’d answer and sometimes they wouldn’t. And so every time they didn’t, you’re second guessing like, Oh, no, this is going to fall through. And we were in the same place we were with, Jace like if this changes and you guys decide to parent like, we support you and we think that’s beautiful. But also like we were really excited about the opportunity. So it’s just like three very emotional rollercoaster weeks like it was up and down and up and down. But the day that he was born, right on his due date, she had been there most of the day. And then they invited us that evening and we sat in the hospital room and talked with her and him. She took it like a champ, like you could not tell she was in labor. They had her meds dialed in just right. And she was she was good. We were just talking. And then the doctor came in and said it was time to push. So we got out and a few hours later we got to meet our baby boy. So it was very different experiences, like everything from the length of time and how the communication was and, being involved with Jesse and not so much with Jace. It was just like two ends of the spectrum in a lot of ways. So we kind of have a lot of experience with Just the adoption process as a whole, like the legal process was the same, but all the emotional and relational parts were very, very different.
Kiona 28:21
Yeah, That sounds like a complete rollercoaster to be honest.
Sounds like a lot of ups and downs, a lot of side to sides, you know? But I think that it’s great the follow through still ended up following through, you know, because I do understand that concern of the gray area of, like, how much communication is too much communication. And since you met them so close to their due date, it sounds like you didn’t have as much of an opportunity to, like, participate in the pregnancy itself, like going to ultrasounds or things like that because things are already on their way. you had mentioned that with Jace’s bio parent, you had the power of attorney to take him home, the day after, even though there was a longer legal process before he was officially yours did you do that same thing with Jesse’s bio parents?
Lindsay 29:11
We did. We did. So that’s something that our attorney just kind of plans on. I mean, he obviously works with bio mom’s attorney to make that all happen, but he’s just done this for so long and that’s what he’s seen has worked well. And so if either one of them had wanted to bring him home and take care of him until the court hearing, that would have been absolutely fine. She has every right to do that. But he’s found that most often they’d rather not just, kind of getting that separation is good. A lot of times they might have a little bit more emotion and a little and struggle with the decision a little bit more. And so it’s kind of like if this is what you want, we’ll sign this and it’ll be fine. And they could have canceled it up to the minute we were walking out the door or even after we got home and said, No, I want to keep him. that would have been just fine. But yeah, that’s kind of like his standard process. So we were thankful for that because it was, you know, really exciting to take our baby home from the hospital and all of that stuff. But yeah, I’d say that that’s pretty standard, at least for the attorney we worked with.
Kiona 30:15
Yeah, I think that’s awesome. So tell me about your feeding choices, because there are some adoptive parents out there that actually decide to induce lactation within themselves. Is that a choice that you made or did you choose otherwise?
Lindsay 30:28
I did not. We were very fortunate to get donor breast milk for Jace. We had him on that until we were going for a year. But once we found out about Jesse, we were like, Wait on the phone. Let’s save some of this precious milk for the next one. So he made it to almost ten months, and then there was a time in there, I want to say it was May. So Jace was about six months old where I read a lot about it. And I actually like, got a pump and thought about inducing lactation. But the more I read and the longer I researched it, I realized that there was like quite a medical protocol for it, and it just wasn’t something that I had the bandwidth for at the time. So that didn’t go anywhere, I at the time, I was like, Well, I’m not going to breastfeed. Jace he’s six months old. But if I could get some milk, I to give it to him and then I could store up some because we did want to adopt again. And I was like, And if an adoption doesn’t happen, I can donate it because so many people have donated to us. But at the end of the day, that just didn’t work out with our story. So then Jesse was on breast milk from donors for about three months until we found out about a dairy intolerance. So then we had to make different plans for him. But I think I counted and there were over 20 different women that helped us feed our babies. And, you know, we were always offering to pay them, but so many of them were so generous and wouldn’t take anything or if they took anything, it was just like some milk bags. And I was just blown away at the generosity. I’m just like, I can’t relate, but I understand how much work it is for you to pump enough for your baby and then to help with our baby. Like, it’s just amazing. So that’s kind of what we did. And there were lots of people that supported us along the way.
Kiona 32:16
I love that I do. And I feel like I’m just going to continue saying that throughout this entire interview because that is the perfect example of a village and
Lindsay 32:25
Yes.
Kiona 32:25
community,
Lindsay 32:26
Yes
Kiona 32:27
because it absolutely takes a village to raise children and that goes anywhere that babies are, you know, whether that’s adoption, whether that’s foster care, whether that’s biological. Children, like all of the babies, need support. And all of the parents with those babies need even more. So the fact that you had the ability to get donor milk from you said around 20 women, just, you know, providing that for you. That’s so amazing. This actually. Reminds me of an app. I am not associated with this app at all. I’m not affiliated with them. I actually just learned about it recently and it’s called Share the Drop. And this is an app that was created by someone who had breast cancer and struggled to have, breast milk production for her children. And it’s basically like bumble for breastfeeding. So anybody in your area can create a profile and you say what you need and someone’s like, I got you. And you can either pick it up or ship it or whatever. But it’s usually within close proximity you can base your search of zip code. It’s crazy.
Lindsay 33:36
That’s
Kiona 33:36
So
Lindsay 33:36
amazing. I wish I had known about that.
Kiona 33:40
yeah, it’s called Share the Drop. So I’ll share the information in the show notes as well as on the web page for your episode. But yeah, I think that’s really cool and could be really beneficial in adoptive parent communities as well.
Lindsay 33:52
Yeah. Yeah. And I found most people on Facebook are like, that would be like someone that my husband went to high school with or something. And so I would make person tag him or like his mom would share it and they’d see it so we showed Jason’s bio mom on Facebook. I found a lot of his milk on Facebook, Jesse’s bio parents could kinda use Facebook to stalk us and like, get to know us in such a short amount of time. So I just for a while I was like, what would our family do without Facebook? Like, we wouldn’t know our babies. We wouldn’t be able to feed babies. Like this is just crazy. And, there’s so much out there about, like the negativity of social media. And I definitely could see that play out in certain situations, too. But I’m like, Man, this is a powerful tool for just community building.
Kiona 34:37
MM Yeah, absolutely. And that’s why Facebook was created, right? Like social media was created to be able to reach people across the world. But it’s also so beneficial for your local area to be able to connect with people in your local area, you are like a golden proof of that,
Lindsay 34:53
Yeah,
Kiona 34:53
you know, like a
Lindsay 34:54
right.
Kiona 34:54
golden profile of proof that you can actually make some really strong local connections.
Lindsay 34:58
Absolutely.
Kiona 35:00
So what has been the most challenging part of adoption for you?
Lindsay 35:05
There are a couple, but I just think sometimes it’s guilt. It’s like whether that’s, like, guilt toward, the biological mothers of my children. Like, I just never understood how hard it would be to place a child for adoption until I became a mom. And, like, obviously, I haven’t been through pregnancy and birth. And to have those connections, but I’m absolutely bonded to my children like a mom of babies and toddlers. And I cannot imagine saying, I love you so much that I’m going to give you the best life I can in this moment. And unfortunately, that’s not with me right now. And that’s 100% what they both did they love them so much that they wanted the best for them. And it does it makes me feel guilty. Like, who am I to be given the gift of being your mom? Like my kids. I just adore them so much and they’re just so fun and cute and sometimes I just like it. Like I want to pinch myself because it doesn’t feel real. And that brings on some guilt. But then there’s also the guilt of there are so many people hoping to adopt. And here I am having adopted two babies so close together and there are so many details about how both of their situations worked out, where it’s like this was just meant to be, you know, whether you believe that God orchestrates all things or the stars align just right or, you know, whatever anyone believes, like it’s just so obvious to me that this was meant to be and that is just crazy. I think that’s been the hardest in working through that. And once again, back to Facebook, like I found community there are other adoptive moms that feel the same way and you just kind of keep doing every day being the best mom you can be and reminding yourself that they sought out adoption and they had the support in place to determine if that was the right decision. And I can go to bed every night knowing that we never pushed or coerced them into anything they didn’t think was best. So that’s definitely been the biggest challenge. I’m sure as my boys get older, there will be other challenges. Whether or not they’ll be harder than that, I don’t know. But that right now where I sit is definitely the most difficult.
Kiona 37:23
Yeah, I can absolutely see how all of that is difficult from both sides, You know, having guilt for being able to be the one that loves on the baby and guilty, that the biological parent doesn’t get that. But at the same time, you are doing such an amazing job and creating that space to where the door is open and you get to communicate with them They still get to see their babies and knowing that they’re well cared for, I think that that’s amazing. And I also want to validate the fact that it is okay to feel guilty about these things. It’s okay to have these emotions because there’s so many moving parts in life. And this is just one of the parts, just like you said, this is your biggest challenge right now and you have no idea what these boys are going to throw at you as they get older. But I feel like you’ll be ready for it. And you also have a community to lean on that includes their bio parents, at least right now. Who knows what it’s going to look like down the road? But the fact that they’re involved now makes me think that they’ll likely be able to be turn to later on as well. If you’re like, hey, especially for like Jace’s mom, you know, like, hey, you have a couple older kids, like, are they this crazy?
Lindsay 38:39
Yeah.
Kiona 38:40
You know, So I really love the fact that this is how you became a parent and this is how you became a mom because it was an intentional choice for you and I am a strong believer in the fact that this all happened because you made it happen. You and your husband made it happen. You and your husband worked so hard to put yourself out there so you could be found by families. you also made it happen by being genuine when you did meet these families, like you didn’t put on an act, you didn’t say, Oh, I’m perfect. You’re like, here’s everything. And then you kind of just leave it up to them. And because of knowing that you presented yourself in the way that you did makes me think that it happened this way because you’re awesome and you made it happen, you know, because if you didn’t have such a positive relationship with Jace’s bio mom, she would not have referred you to Jesse’s bio mom, which means you could have been waiting so much longer to have, an additional child, but you were just awesome enough to be loved and she wanted to share you. So I think that’s great.
Lindsay 39:52
Well, thank you. That’s such a compliment. I appreciate it.
Kiona 39:55
Yeah, absolutely. So tell me what it was like on your end with your family while you were going through the adoption process. Like, was there support from your parents, your friends? Do you have any siblings that supported you? What was that like for you?
Lindsay 40:11
Yeah. So I have an older sister and a younger brother and my husband has two younger sisters and all four of our parents and all four of our siblings were supportive through the process, some more than others. Like our moms, we’re like the biggest fans of our Facebook page where like everything we post, they would share and so when I’m helping other hopeful adoptive parents like navigate using social media, I’m like, You don’t want every post to be like, Hey, we’re hoping to adopt. Like, you want to kind of build a community and like, educate about adoption and about yourselves and all the things. But I could literally be like, Here’s a picture of my dog today and my mom would like share. And so would his mom it’s like, I don’t even know, like they probably don’t know how to turn on notifications for a page, but it felt like they had them on. Like everything we posted, they were sharing right away. So they were excited to welcome a grandchild. And on my side, Jaycee’s the oldest grandchild and on my husband’s side there’s this one. Our niece is about a year older than him, but they were just so excited. Big fans. Our dads, like, never said anything negative. My dad and I are very close and like he was kind of like, I wunna say maybe a little bit skeptical. Like he never outwardly said that, but just I feel like I read that from him of like, this is just not traditional. And Z, what are you doing now? Like, I think I’ve always been one to go against the grain a little bit. So I’m sure he wasn’t surprised, but was just like not wanting us to get our hopes up and then something fall through and, making sure that we just understood what we were getting ourselves into. But I think if you asked him today, he’d he like it was crazy. I was really worried about it. But it’s the best thing that ever happened to our family. So, yeah, our family is super supportive. Our sisters are like the funnest aunts ever. Our boys just love them. And then my brother, He’s quite a bit younger than me, so he is 20 and he is the fun uncle, but also, like, still out with his friends all the time. But I’m sure in like five years my boys will just think he’s the coolest. So that’s good and scary at the same time. But they were great. all of them probably kind of have the same thoughts that my dad had of like, this is a little weird. Like, I don’t think that they you know, I don’t know that we said like, oh, we’re not trying for kids or like, we I mean, we never said we’re unable to have kids. And so they were like, well, they haven’t even been married a year when we first started the process. And we’re like, What? Like this is kind of strange, but whatever. So yeah, I’m sure they all, thought it was different, but came around to the idea quickly and they both learned a lot through the process, like we’ve learned a lot and that’s helped our circles learn a lot, like all the way out to our aunts and uncles and cousins. And that’s something I’m really grateful for too. It’s just like being in this world now like so many people don’t know as much about adoption as there is to know. Like it feels maybe a little more black and white than it actually is, especially open adoption and all that there is to that. So that’s been really cool to like learn about, but also share about and just help more people be educated on.
Kiona 43:17
Yeah. No, I think that’s great. And I feel like the education aspect that you’re talking about is so vast This interview that I’m doing with you right now, I am, like, literally learning so much and I’m like, Oh, snap. Like, I didn’t even know that was possible. And so to know that I am learning and my listeners are also going to be learning and the fact that you are actively doing this on your social media as in helping educate people, I think that’s great. One question I do have is do you also support people that are planning on adopting older children? Like maybe someone wants to come and adopt a teenager or, you know, someone that they just want to love on but they don’t necessarily want an infant? Do you help people through that process as well?
Lindsay 44:00
So not so much. And not because I’m against it. Because I think it’s great and beautiful and maybe something that we will pursue someday. What I’ve learned is that typically that’s going to be through foster care that you would adopt an older child. And so the process looks somewhat the same, except the nature of the world we live in. There are a lot more kids available, especially the older the age you go. there’s great foster care agencies or like going through the county is also an option where you would get a home study similar to what we did. But at least in Ohio, it’s a little bit different. So like we couldn’t foster with our home study or someone who’s fostering could adopt an infant with theirs, like it’s just a little bit different. And then it’s not so much like the child’s biological parents, like, choose you. It’s more like they’re in foster care and you kind of get matched through the agency or the county based on like what you’re able to take on or what age you’re looking for or like if you have a certain gender. So maybe someone has a daughter and so they’re only comfortable welcoming girls, if they had to share a room or whatever it is. But I do have people that are in the foster care space in my social media network and I do think there’s definitely overlap. And the communities in general are very supportive of each other. And a lot of times people have done both or have pursued one and are now pursuing the other. But it’s not something where like my help with social media is quite as relevant because they’re not like putting themselves out there. It’s more just filling out what you’re able to do and going through the process that way.
Kiona 45:38
Yeah, Yeah. And I think that’s like totally fine and fair. It was just a question that I asked because I actually have a close friend of mine who is like debating on adoption and wanting to potentially adopt older because they don’t necessarily want to have the infant stage. They want to be that person that is there later on. So I think that’s super awesome and I’m just so amazed at how much I learn every single time I interview someone because there are so many different routes and Yeah, but Lindsey, I am so happy that you came on today. Is there anything that I did not ask that you would want to share?
Lindsay 46:17
the biggest thing that I always want people to know when we’re talking about adoption is that if there’s something that, is on your heart, for whatever reason or you’ve ever thought about it, just learn more. Like, there’s so much information out there on the Internet and Facebook groups so many places. I just am so passionate about adoption. I tell people like, if this is something you’ve ever thought of, don’t let anything stand in your way like one and all you can really think about it. And if it’s still something that’s tugging on your heart, then, pick up the phone and call an attorney or an agency or a foster agency and get your questions answered because it is the most beautiful thing, even though I feel guilt, like you said, I just think that, we were meant to be the parents of our boys. And it all came together the way it was supposed to. And like What would have happened if we never pursued adoption or if we felt like, well, you know, we don’t struggle with infertility. So, like, we’re not cut out for this or we don’t deserve this. I just think it can happen to anybody at any time if they’re open to it. And it’s such a blessing that I would want anybody to be open to it if it’s tugging on their heart. So that’s kind of my last thought, I guess.
Kiona 47:30
Yeah. No, that’s great. I love it. I have three final closing questions for you and that one kind of answers that. But you might even be able to come up with something else is what is one piece of advice that you would give to families that are thinking about adoption?
Lindsay 47:45
the place to start is just education. There’s so many types of adoption. ours were domestic, infinite option and we went the private route, which was without an agency. So private or independent is sometimes what that’s called. But you can go through an agency, you can adopt internationally, you can adopt older children through foster care, like there’s so many different options. So the best place to start is to just learn as much as you can and really think about what the right path for your family is and then find the most ethical and experience providers you can in that space.
Kiona 48:21
Yes. Yeah, I agree. I agree with everything
Lindsay 48:24
Yeah.
Kiona 48:24
you said because if I was doing adoption, I would be doing some research for
Lindsay 48:28
Yeah.
Kiona 48:29
sure. my next question is what is one resource that I can share with my listeners on your behalf, potentially something that you have used yourself or a website or anywhere you would send someone?
Lindsay 48:43
there’s so many Facebook groups about adoption. So someone wanting to learn more, just go to Facebook and search adoption and click on that group filter and it’ll show you so many. I actually have a group that’s for hopeful adoptive parents that want to use social media to match. But there’s tons of other groups out there, whether it’s just community for people in the adoption space. There’s groups that try to match people. A lot of times there’s way more hope for adoptive parents than expectant parents in there. But it’s still great because people will post about themselves in the hopes that an expectant parent sees it, but they’ll also just ask their questions. And that’s honestly how I learned as much as I did in the beginning was just seeing what questions people are asking and then writing the answers that they got from other people. It’s just I mean, we’re in the information age and it’s just incredible to me how much you can learn from a computer that you carry around in your pocket all day. So that would be the number one place I would just look And also, like things have changed just in the last ten, 15, 20 years about adoption. So that’s kind of like the real time. And people all over the country where the laws are a little bit different and you can just go in there and search for your state or the type of adoption you want and learn so many things.
Kiona 50:00
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. You also have your own Facebook group. what is your Facebook group called so that I can link it in the show notes below.
Lindsay 50:08
So my my group is called Adoption: Tips for matching on social media. And then my Instagram handle, which is where I’m the most active, is at the helpful HAP H A P. So that stands for hopeful adoptive parent.
Kiona 50:24
awesome. Okay. That is amazing. So my next question to ask is if you could describe the adoption experience with one word for each of your boys, what would it be?
Lindsay 50:41
Honestly, both of them would be the same word and not as roller coaster. Like, I think no matter how bumpy or smooth or predictable a journey is like it’s still a roller coaster. There are so many emotions and yeah, yeah, it’s just the way that our lives have changed so much in the last two years is crazy. And I never, ever could have predicted it.
Kiona 51:04
Yeah, I think a rollercoaster is an amazing word. Just hearing your stories, I can hear the rollercoaster of, all of the levels, honestly, like, physicall, mentally and emotionally. Like, everything that has to go into place and line up in order to make this happen. So I guess the next thing that I have to say is not really a question. It might be I don’t know. I’m just going to kind of talk out loud and see what happens. My podcast is called Birth As we Know It, and I have been so focused on sharing birth stories and experiences and I just want to say thank you so much for sharing your story of how you were birthed into a mother, because it’s not necessarily the same as people that give biological birth to their children. But you are still a mother, and I want to validate that. And I also want the listeners to know that you don’t have to birth a baby on your own to be a mother if that’s not what you want to do. So thank you.
Lindsay 52:04
Thank you so much for having me. I think you know the passion you have for birth and motherhood and just, you know, where a family starts is so, so important. And I’m honored to be here.
Kiona 52:15
Yes, absolutely.
Outro 52:28
During this interview with Lindsay, I actually learned so much more about the adoption process, as well as the fact that people don’t have to be struggling with infertility to go through with an adoption. I am so biased in my thought process with that because I talk about birth all the time. I talk to people about birth all the time, and that includes when they are infertile. So if you listen to this podcast and have been for a while, you would hear in many of my interviews that we talk about the struggles of conception, what people go through in order to have a baby. So the fact that Lindsay had her own personal desire to adopt a baby without even trying to conceive her own baby naturally was eye opening to me. So, Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your story and enlightening us on the many different ways that people can be birthed into a parent. And thank you so much again for being on the podcast. Now, if you haven’t already, I would highly suggest that you join the Birth As We Know It Podcast Community on Facebook, because in that group they let me know that they wanted to hear more from adoptive parents as well as adoptees. And so if you have any specific story that you want to hear, you can let me know. And I will try my best to get that story for you. You can join that group by going to
birthasweknowitpodcast.com/community. Now if you liked this episode and want to hear another episode that is related to adoption, you can listen to episode 70 with Morgan Harvey, where she talks about how being an adoptee so a person who was adopted impacted her decisions as a mother and how it felt to be biologically related to someone in her family for the first time. Now, if you want to see the beautiful photos of Lindsay and her family for this episode, a well as check out the show notes, you can go to
birthasweknowitpodcast. com/73 and all of her details will be there. All right, everyone, thank you so much for sticking around and listening to this amazing story with me. I look forward to talking to you again soon. Bye for now.
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