Description: In this episode, Hannah shared her experience with being cared for by out-of-hospital midwives and birthing her son Hunter at a stand-alone birth center. She also talks about how during the immediate postpartum time she had to be transferred to the hospital before being released home to obtain sutures for a 3rd degree vaginal tear.
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.
To hear another out-of-hospital birth experience tune into episode 56-Kirsten Spitz-2 Vaginal Births-Logan & Lincoln-Apex Chiropractic WA.
Resources:
- Carlsrud Psychological Services: https://carlsrudpsychologicalservices.com/
- Perinatal Support of Washington: https://perinatalsupport.org/
- Postpartum Support International: https://www.postpartum.net
- Ask family to make a Meal Train: https://www.mealtrain.com/
- Spinning Babies: https://www.spinningbabies.com/
- Good Moms Have Scary Thoughts Book: A Healing Guide to the Secret Fears of New Mothers
Definitions:
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Transcription of Episode 75:
Intro 0:08
Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I’ve realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you’re ready. With that said, let’s prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space.
Disclaimer 1:06
As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your license provider.
Kiona 1:25
Before we dive into this episode, I want to say thank you very much for tuning into the birth as we know It podcast, because if it wasn’t for you listening right now, this podcast wouldn’t be where it is. So I appreciate you and I am so thankful that you decided to tune in today. In this episode, Hannah shares her personal experience of what it’s like to give birth in a private birth center in Washington State. And then she also talks about the challenges that she experienced in her postpartum period. And at the time of the recording, her son, Hunter, was nine months old. And if you like this episode, after you’re done listening, are really good episode to tune into would be episode 56 with Kirsten Spitz, and she talks about her two different out of hospital birth experiences as well. One in a birth center and one at home. And don’t forget, if you want to be part of the birth as we know it, community on Facebook, you can join by going to
birthasweknowitpodcast. com/community. All right. Let’s get into Hannah’s story today. Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. Today I have the opportunity to interview Hannah Carlsrud and we will be talking about the birth of her son, Hunter. And I want to give Hannah a shout out because she is a therapist and she is the owner of Carlsrud Psychological Services where she focuses on trauma with a specialization in perinatal trauma through like weekly services or trauma intensives. So, Hannah, thank you so much for coming on today.
Hannah 3:05
Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I’m very excited to chat today.
Kiona 3:08
Yes, I’m excited to dive into the nitty gritty of your story because, birth doesn’t always go as planned. And I know that there were some little things that happened. So. Let’s just dive right into it and let’s talk about the conception process that you and your husband had with Hunter. Was Hunter planned or was he a surprise?
Hannah 3:29
That’s a hard question to start out with. I think it was kind of 5050. It was kind of planned where we were at the point in our relationship or like, yes, I think we’re ready to have a baby. And like, I didn’t want to use birth control anymore. I was at the point in my life where I just didn’t want the side effects anymore and decided to go off of birth control. And I think in the beginning it was more like we knew it’s going to take a while until the hormones wear off and like it wasn’t really intentional. But we didn’t use contraception, so it was kind of sort of planned. And we tried for quite a while and eventually it was like, we’re just going to mellow a little bit out because we were like looking at the right day of the right month and like really planning it out. And it kind of got a little bit almost obsessive, I would say not to use the word wrongly, but a little bit too intense for us both. And that month I was going to Europe as a travel trip with my school, actually. And the week before we left, I was like, Hmm, weird. My period as late. Like I didn’t even think of like, or expecting to be pregnant, but I took a pregnancy test and I was like, Oh my God, this is like actually happening now. So I was super excited and ran into the bedroom was like, Yep, it’s happening. And yeah, it happened.
Kiona 4:51
Awesome. So what was your husband’s reaction when you told him?
Hannah 4:55
He was like, still asleep. So he woke up and was just like, Oh, okay, cool. Like. It is. I think he didn’t like totally realize until he actually woke up and like gave me a hug and like, just talked about it. What’s going to happen and how I’m going to survive a trip to Europe now.
Kiona 5:14
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. And I love what you said at the very beginning, saying like, you know, Hunter wasn’t necessarily planned, but he wasn’t unplanned because I feel like that is the way that a lot of people find out that they’re pregnant. They’re like, Oh, I would love the idea. And then they try for a little while and then it does kind of get a little bit too obsessive. It makes the intimacy of creating a baby a.
Hannah 5:37
Hmm.
Kiona 5:37
It’s actionable
Hannah 5:38
Yes.
Kiona 5:38
and it takes away the fun. And so sometimes you just gotta to take a step back and just
Hannah 5:45
Let it happen.
Kiona 5:45
do it
Hannah 5:46
Yeah.
Kiona 5:46
it.
Hannah 5:47
Yeah.
Kiona 5:48
Yes. how was your pregnancy with Hunter? Like, did your trip to Europe get impacted too much by being pregnant?
Hannah 5:56
So it was kind of an up and down, I think it was a pretty, I would say, typical pregnancy where like the first 12 weeks were pretty rough. So I was I think about seven or eight weeks when I went to Europe. And the beginning was great. Like you go to Europe, you have all this great food. I was just like eating all day, every day. It was it was great. I got there. I felt great. I walked like 20,000 steps a day, which was just exhausting as hell. But other than that, it was good. We had a couple trips where I started to feel nauseous and then we went to like a museum where they show you like dead fetuses and like human parts in, like glasses and stuff. It was really like, odd and like old psychiatric hospital and like, it was like, really weird to where it was kind of like shutting my eyes close and not looking too intensely at things. then I started to get, like, nauseous every day and like, I woke up and had to, like, throw up and like, it was pretty rough. The last, like three or four days of our trip, I think were really intense and nobody knew, right? I didn’t tell anyone because it was before the 12 week mark, so we didn’t want to tell anyone. just to be careful and keep it to ourselves. And then I told one of my classmates just to make sure that if I like have to jump or have to step out or something, that at least someone knows what’s going on. And then the flight back was the worst flight I have experienced in my life. I usually don’t have an issue with flying and that nine hour flight I couldn’t eat. I couldn’t drink. I was throwing up all the time. It was horrible, literally. And then I came home and I think I was living off of crackers and like, watermelon juice for like four weeks or something. It was rough. I was like, really, really nauseous and like, right from the start in the morning, you’re like, I don’t even have anything in me. What is what is happening, Then it got better after those first initial, I think it was like around 12 weeks. And then I really got like significantly better, got my energy back, was able to work out. I was still going to like boxing classes and doing cardio and like all these things, and then slowly into the third trimester, it was like slowing down again. I was like, Who? Now I’m like, I know that there’s a human in me. I’m. I’m noticing it. I’m like napping more throughout the day, sitting down more. I having these, like, internal conversations. Do I have to work out or should I just sit down because I’m pregnant and it’s like, good for me, but it’s also I’m tired. so it was kind of like a slow start. Then it got better and then kind of mellowed out again and. no big complications. I felt really good throughout my pregnancy. I felt like pretty calm and happy. And in the beginning I was kind of anxious before I had all the fetal tests done until I knew that everything was okay with the baby. I think that’s like the initial, especially if it’s like your first pregnancy. I think it’s always like, who that’s going to happen, what’s going to come out like. And some of them are really late too, or it’s like 16 weeks, I think so, yeah.
Kiona 8:57
Yeah. Always having that need for reassurance because.
Hannah 9:01
Exactly.
Kiona 9:02
That goes on that people, even regardless of how many times you get pregnant that people are fearful of, Right. Is potential loss, potential chromosomal defects. Like if there’s. Anything also. Like, is baby okay? Are they growing properly?
Hannah 9:17
Yes.
Kiona 9:17
Do they have all of their body parts? You know?
Hannah 9:21
Hmm.
Kiona 9:21
All of that matters for sure.So By the end of your pregnancy. Did you feel ready for labor? Like, did you attend any childbirth education classes or anything like that?
Hannah 9:33
So I had a wonderful birth team at my birth center in Kirkland. Team of midwives and I also hired a doula that supported us throughout. I think our first meeting was week 20 and then week 34, I think. And she kind of coached us through the different stages of labor and how you can tell if you’re like an active labor or not and like different positioning. He can support me with and how much it really is like back pain. And I texted with her a bunch of times about like what supplements I can take and what I should stay away from and like the visits with my midwives were wonderful because they really took their time like it was almost every time was like 40 to 60 minutes. I could ask all questions. They would give me all the resources they would have and just talk about all the fears and anxieties and like preparing me for birth too, and saying like, okay, what’s your birth plan? Do you have one? Do you want one? What is your support team look like? My husband was wonderful in that and just really feeling like I could ask anything, no matter what. And even if I would just come in and be like, I forgot everything that I wanted to ask, they would just talk to me. And then in the process they would like come back to me because, you know, pregnancy brain, you forget things. But yeah, I felt I felt a lot more prepared. Then when I was actually in labor, I was like, Oh, I was not prepared.
Kiona 10:57
Okay.
Let’s talk about that a little bit. So first off, I love that you had an amazing experience with your midwife. The birth center that I’m aware of in Kirkland is the Puget Sound birth Center. Yeah,
Hannah 11:10
That’s it.
Kiona 11:11
they’re awesome. I
Hannah 11:12
Yeah.
Kiona 11:12
love them. They definitely are super good at making sure that they utilize all of the time with their.
Hannah 11:19
Yes.
Kiona 11:19
And sometimes it’s like you have 20 minutes left. Like, what else do you want to talk about? And, involving other midwives, letting you make sure that you cycle through all of them to meet all of them so that you’re aware of who’s on call. Yeah, I love that. I also love that you hired a doula one because I’m a doula, but. I really do think that having a doula makes a big difference. And I’m happy that your husband was also super supportive for you. That’ great.
Hannah 11:46
Yeah, it was like looking back at it now, I think it was like the perfect first birthday experience because I want to have like five kids now. My son’s like, Excuse me, What? Did you remember this?
Kiona 12:00
Is hilarious. I mean, that’s beautiful at the same time, because it shows that like, you know, we’re going to get into your birth year in a minute, but it shows that you felt cared for enough in a positive way.
Hannah 12:12
Hmm.
Kiona 12:13
To say I can do this again.
Hannah 12:15
Yeah, absolutely.
Kiona 12:16
Yeah. So let’s do it. Let’s stop making people wait. Let’s dive
Hannah 12:20
Okay.
Kiona 12:20
into this birth. So tell me about the moment you realized you were in labor.
Hannah 12:25
okay. There’s basically two moments, because the first moment I thought it started because it was like regular like Braxton Hicks basically was like, they’ve never been regular. This is weird. And my husband was like, Does it hurt? I’m like, No. Like, okay, well, we’ll just observe it. But it didn’t progress at all. So it was just like it was on and off, but it didn’t hurt, didn’t get worse. So I was just texting Madeline. She’s like, Yeah, just keep me informed, go to bed. Like all the things. I was like, okay, cool. Went to bed. Nothing happened. Next morning, I got up, I got a Brazilian wax. I cleaned my car like all the things you could think of that your brain tells you to do before a baby comes. So I was like, physically active. And then eventually the contractions got stronger because I was physically active. then they started like pinching. And I was like, Oh, that has not happened before. This is new. And then pretty quickly they started to get regular and like every, like 2 to 3 minutes, like pretty intensely. And it’s like they’re pretty uncomfortable. So Josh was like, okay, get your birth ball, sit down, put on your show, like, I’ll contact the doula, like, let’s just talk to her. And she’s like, Oh, yeah, just go to bed, relax, like, eat something, drink something, do what you need to do to take care of yourself. And we’re like, Cool. We went to bed, tried to sleep. I knew I couldn’t really go to sleep because I felt like the pain building. So I was just laying there, relaxing. My husband kind of tried to sleep and then bush water broke. I was like, Yeah, that was definitely my water. Anyone that ever questions if their water broke, you know, it’s no feeling like anything else. And so we changed the sheets or just got them off and I sat on the toilet, let it all get out and yeah, my husband got into, into army mode and he like work, focus mode and like tac tac. Okay, let’s do this and call the midwives. And the doula. And midwives were like, yeah, if the water broke and if she’s already on like minute apart contractions, you should probably come in and do levels. Was on her way then and we just got in the car and started driving to the birth center, which was only like 10 minutes. So it was pretty, pretty short drive. But yeah, that was the moment I knew. I was like, okay, these contractions heard. This has never hurt before. This is different than anything else. And it was really like you could like time it on the clock, like every 2 minutes it would happen. So that was when I realized that I was in labor.
Kiona 14:59
Yeah. That’s when you were like, There is no turning back.
Hannah 15:01
Mm hmm. Yep.
Kiona 15:03
Yes. Okay. So you’re on the toilet letting the water come out. you go on your drive about 10 minutes. How was that drive for you? Did you find it really intense with the contractions happening during the. It’s not really paying attention.
Hannah 15:17
We were driving through like construction zones and there were like really big bombs and there were really uncomfortable. I was like, okay, I can do this. I knew it was like. I was like almost excited because I knew what was coming. Like, I was like, anxious but excited. It was like, And you know how your body sometimes can tell if you’re anxious or excited because it’s the same bodily reaction that was the state I was in as like, is this anxiety or is this excitement? I don’t know, but something’s happening. And I knew where we’re close and that everything was going through plan. And like I knew I wasn’t in active labor yet because I knew what was coming kind of and that kind of caught me down to be like, okay, well, we’ll be there in a minute. Like my midwives know what to do and my doula knows what to do and just kind of relied on on my team in that moment and was like, okay, Josh knows, what to do. he’s prepped. And yeah, I it was kind of like the calm before the storm I feel like.
Kiona 16:16
Yeah, I think that’s a great description of that moment because that’s what I’m thinking of, is like the calm before the storm, the calm before everything really gets gets it going, you
Hannah 16:28
Yes.
Kiona 16:28
know, because you know that you had to make this transition like you were not planning a homebirth. So you knew that you had to go somewhere else. Right. And so as you’re in this mindset of being like, okay, let’s go. And then that excitement of like, Oh my God, we’re actually going like this is happening. Like, okay, the way you described the feelings of anxiousness and nervousness. 100% accurate because I totally understand that description.
Hannah 16:53
Yeah.
Kiona 16:54
And then you’re there. And what happens next when you walk in and get settled? Do you get checked since your water broke or do they wait in? Hold that off.
Hannah 17:04
I don’t think they check yet. Actually, I can’t remember when they checked me the first time. I think they waited a little bit and got me, like, settled in and like, I got changed and just like a t shirt, a loose t shirt, and was just like moving around and breathing through contraction. Cause I was kind of already not talking through them again anymore. Actually having to focus a little bit more. I don’t even know where my dilation started. I think we started at like, three centimeters, but they checked me first and then it kind of progressed through that. It got it got intense, pretty quickly it felt like. So I arrived at the birth center at 12 and then I think within like an hour, I was like, screaming. It was like. pretty quick in the beginning. And my doula came and she was like, oh, you’re you’re far ahead already. Okay. I didn’t expect you to be so. So deep into labor already. But she she got there and I got my little, like, light. I had like a little star light for, for the mood that I set up. And we put a music that I made a playlist for, and we had, like, different positions that I could go into and like the ball. And then I had to get an I.V. So I had like this little carrier behind me that I would always, like get with me and just move around a lot in the beginning. And then eventually it got like pretty intense contractions. I transferred to the toilet next and was there for a little while, and then I got into the tub and I think it was a pretty long time where I was in the tub laboring. And it was kind of wild because I think I had almost like a labor stall and there were like just nothing happened. Like, they checked me and like, it was just not progressing. next I got the nitrous gas to like relieve a little bit of the pain. And that definitely helped. And my Dula was kind of saying some almost like mantras to, like, calm me and like, relax me. And that really helped me refocus. And it almost put me in like and I don’t know if it was the birth like stage that I was in or if it was the mantras or both that really put me in almost like a trance state. It was like surreal. It felt like I was like out. It was like an out of body experience, almost Like I wasn’t like, physically there anymore, but I was not unconscious and was kind of just like hanging in there. And then I had like this dream of giving birth. And then I woke up and I didn’t give birth yet, and I was.
Kiona 19:37
Oh, no.
Hannah 19:38
And it was rough. That was like a mental breaking point for me because it felt like I was already done, but I wasn’t. So I was like, okay, I need to get out of this tub. I need to, like, do something else. I need to, like, find my will again, almost. And there was a lot of reassurance for my team and like, really talking me through and like. It’s wild how your mindset can shift from like, I can’t do this to okay, I can do this, I can’t do this, I can do this, and it can kind of like isolate, especially if you haven’t done this before. It’s just so much pain. You you never you can’t imagine anything this painful. that’s why I felt like in the moment I was like, oh, I wasn’t prepared at all for this because there is technically there is no preparation, so you do it. I feel like that that was my experience of it. You can’t describe it and you can’t really truly prepare for it until you’ve done it. And then every birth is so individualized and so different that it’s, again, so hard to even prepare for the second, third, fourth birth. Right. But it’s a little bit more like, I know the scale, I know like the pain I like. Can kind of expect what is going to happen. And we got out of the tub and then. I don’t know if it was before or after. I know that, like my cervix was swollen and he wouldn’t move. So that was basically the reason for the stall. It was like completely swollen. So what the reason for this is nobody really knew, but it was too swollen for him to basically move through it, which is why I wasn’t dilated enough and so we had to again, move around a little bit to kind of put that take the pressure off. And while we were moving around, his head basically moved into my back, which I didn’t know because I was at that point just so out of it that I was just relying on everyone else. But my husband told me after the fact he was like, Oh yeah, I saw his head in your back and I good that I didn’t know this because that would have freaked me out. So they did like actually the three spelling babies, and I had to like inverse myself and basically do a handstand. And yeah, it was it was wild. And then I was on the bed after they figured out how to kind of move him back and my body. Then at that point was trying to push, it was starting to tell me I have to push now. And the midwife who was like your like at four or five centimeters, you cannot push. You physically cannot. You’re not going to get him out. I’m like, Oh my God, how am I going to how am I going to survive this? And then I just overheard I think I wasn’t supposed to hear this, but it was like, Oh, yeah, it’s going to take like 3 to 4 hours until she can push. And I was just like, Excuse me. What? No, no, I can’t do this. And then everybody was like, No, you can. You can. And I felt like a little bird, like with broken wings at that point. The energy of the birth itself was like taken out of me because I felt like I had to work against my body. And that was so like it was so. Disrupting to the process that it felt really defeating to be in this position. Eventually it was like, Well, I’m here, right? I’m just going to keep going. What I’m doing. I’m not going to get transferred to the hospital because I can’t even move. So I’m not going to move anywhere into a car or whatever. I’m like, I’m just going to stay here. It’s fine as long as baby is fine, I’m fine. It’s like what it is. I kind of like accepted my situation in that how how you can say it. And eventually she. I think I forgot a part. I think it was a part where she was trying to move my cervix out of the way. I think that was before I even got out of the tub and she, like, manually moved my cervix. She like, asked me if I wanted to do this and like, does it help progressing labour or does it help moving it forward? And she’s like, Yeah, probably. I can’t guarantee it, but it’s probably going to help. But it’s also going to hurt like a B*. So she went in and manually moved it and I think it actually helped progress the labour in that it he at least like moved around and we could like keep going but I think she did it twice and that was worse than the labour pain itself. It was I, I can’t like physically remember it any more because your brain shuts that off after birth. But I remember being in there and I was like, I’m not doing this again. I’m never doing this again. that was a big, big part to but. Going back to. I got off the bed after those three or 4 hours. She said it’s going to take hold back against the push. She was like, okay, you’re not fully dilated yet, but I think you can start pushing. I think you’re going to be okay, like try it and see what happens and we’ll just observe. An I was like, okay, I can push. Okay. And that was kind of the relief for me because I was like, okay, the end is near. I can do this. Like, this is now. I’m like following my body. I’m following the instinct and like, this is the next stage and felt like I’m doing something again. I’m not just laying there, letting it happen. So we went into the tub again and I tried the most different position. I was like, He’s not. He can’t fit. I can’t I can’t get him out like this. There’s no way I could feel him in my not cervix, in my.
Kiona 24:52
Vaginal canal.
Hannah 24:53
Yes, I could. Feeling down like sitting in there and I could, like, touch his head outside. But I was like, th. There’s no way I can. I can’t. And they were like, well, you’re going to have to believe that you can, because you can. And they were like, okay, let’s put some gravity into it to be transferred into the birthing stool right outside the tub, like my husband was like sitting behind me and it was sitting on the stool and I was like, pushing, pushing, pushing. And then we’re really close and we’re like, okay, let’s transfer back into the tub, because they kind of wanted to prevent all the rupturing and stuff and like really have the last push in the tub. And because I also wanted technically a water birth because I just that was my imagination. But I was like, okay, let’s go in the moment. I, like, pushed myself up. I sank back down and pushed him out. I was like, There’s there’s no way I could have moved in that fashion anymore. And I could just I pushed him out and I could feel like everything wrapped down there. And I was like, Oh, cool. There’s no back. There’s no back now. And just one push. And he completely came out. It wasn’t even multiple, like just the head and the rest or anything. It was one push all the way down. And then I held him in my arms. I was like, Oh my God, this is this was the best experience ever. I want to do this again. My husband just looked at me. I was like, Are you crazy? Did you did you just go through this?
Kiona 26:17
It’s so funny. I, I honestly think it is amazing how often people do that, like when they have a really awesome even though it’s a really hard experience. Like labor is tough. Like what? You’re putting your body through, what you’re going through mentally, physically, emotionally. It is tough. But I love when people like right after they push their baby out and they hold them against their chest, and then they look up at the team and their partner and say, that wasn’t that bad.
Hannah 26:48
Mm hmm.
Kiona 26:49
I could totally do this again. Love when that happens, because I’m like, Yes.
Hannah 26:55
Yeah.
Kiona 26:56
Confidence is amazing.
Hannah 26:57
Yeah.
Kiona 26:58
It’s so, so awesome. I love it so much. Okay. So Utah. Really bad. If I remember correctly, you said three and a half degrees.
Hannah 27:08
Yeah, it was like a3b, I think. Was it labeled?
Kiona 27:12
Wow, a3b degree tear. That means it went through the rectal wall, correct?
Hannah 27:19
Yes. Not a complete for, but very, very close.
Kiona 27:24
Yeah.
Hannah 27:25
Yeah. And
Kiona 27:26
Who
Hannah 27:26
that
Kiona 27:26
we.
Hannah 27:26
was actually I was laying on the bed with the baby in my arms. And then she was like, okay, I’m going to have to check certain certain tears I can do at the birth center. And for certain you’ll have to go to the hospital. And the moment she pulled it apart, I let out a scream and my doula just stepped in and was like, Can we put some cream on that, please? And it was like, Oh, yeah, sure, no problem. We’ll put some lemon cream. I’m like, okay, thank you. No more pain today, please. So that helped a little bit, but it feels like, yeah, this is definitely too deep that I can’t do this. You have to go to the hospital and get it, stitched up. And yeah, I was thankful for for that cream, but it still hurt. It like it was worse than, like retrospect because I was already present again. But I stayed at the birth center for a little bit and like after half an hour, I think pretty quickly after I gave birth, I started breastfeeding him already and he like, latched on perfectly. It was like drinking a lot. it was just dreamy. It was the perfect experience. And like, we gathered all our stuff and like, Josh made me some food and I are some, and they were checking on baby, they were checking on me, gave me some pain medication and kind of got me ready to get transferred to the hospital. So they called and Evergreen. It’s like 2 minutes down the road. So it wasn’t like a big transfer. And it’s almost like a second story to go. It’s my hospital visits.
Kiona 28:55
Let’s do it. It’s
Hannah 28:56
Okay.
Kiona 28:56
part of it.
Hannah 28:57
Okay. So we went there. My midwife and the midwife student actually, who attended my birth too, and was kind of involved in it, went with us and we were meeting in the room and Hunter was still feeding and just at my arms and was precious little guy. And the doctor came in and kind of assessed and was like, Well, we have two options. We can do it locally, but there is a chance that you can still feel it. And then we’ll just have to give you more. And like, I’d really prefer to do it in the operating room with like good lighting and like more precisely, I would say,
Kiona 29:29
Mm hmm.
Hannah 29:29
and giving you like almost like a mini epidural. So you’re just numbed from your hips down and you will not feel a thing.And I’m like, I’m going to take not feeling a thing because I don’t even want to feel a needle pinch at this point or taking a risk that someone starts suing me up and still feeling it like, No, thank you. I was just like, Do the best job you can, please. I just want it together and go home. They were like, Yeah, well, going home, we’d like you to stay overnight. It’s like, I’m not staying overnight. I’m going home. Make this happen. Can we do a surgery today? Because I. We’re not prepared for a hospital stay where we didn’t even have our diapers or anything. We literally just walked into a hospital. Our car was in front and we didn’t have anything with us. I’m like, I know. So they respected that. They gave me the options of like what I want to do. And like, I just had eaten a couple of hours ago. So they kind of wanted to wait a little bit longer before giving me an anesthetic. Anesthetic? Yes. And then I started getting prepped for almost like the surgery. I call it surgery because it felt like it was a surgery.
Kiona 30:35
It was a procedure for sure.
Hannah 30:36
Yes. Procedure. And my husband was left alone with the baby in the room and was told, Well, we’ll give you updates and just sit tight and just take. Okay. And after like an hour and no update, he was like, when is she coming back? How long is this going to take? While between, like two and 8 hours. And he’s like eight. I have a baby here who needs to eat every 2 hours. Like, can you give me, like, an actual number, please? Like, what am I supposed to do? And didn’t know. Left him alone again. Luckily, my husband’s dad came by and, like, kind of got updates for him, and I supported him through this day, and I didn’t know. I thought he was getting updates and I was just, like, eventually out of it, but got like my mini epidural got fixed. I didn’t feel anything. Then had a little bit time to like wake up and to see if I can feel my legs again or like my toes. And they tested that and I did eventually. And then I got rolled back into the room, could feed Hunter and was like back and everything was like, okay. And then were like, Well, we have to wait until you have control of your bladder again. And I was like, Okay, sure. So it just went on and on and on. And I felt like the whole birth was from 12 to 12. So 12 M We got to the birth center and then I gave birth around 12 and then we got home from the hospital at 12 a.m. again. So it was like. A super long stay that I didn’t expect it to be that long, but they had to wait for me to gain a little bit control because I got out of bed and I just peed everywhere because I didn’t have control over anything, because I didn’t feel anything. but eventually they were like, okay, repeat twice, like it’s fine. You can go home. Like just make sure that you walk carefully and you have someone next to you and all that stuff. And it’s like, roll me out of here. Just keep me home.
Kiona 32:24
Right. Right. So one question I have is, when you were in the O.R. getting sutured, did they put you to sleep or did they just give you that partial epidural and you were awake the whole time?
Hannah 32:36
Yeah, they just gave me a partial epidural and I didn’t feel anything. Hips down. I was awake, but I didn’t really see anything because it was all covered. So the whole team was like, there and they like one was like behind me and was like talking me through it and was like, okay, we’re going to like, fix you now turn on the lights. And it was a really quick procedure. I think it was maybe 3 to 5 minutes and then the recovery was just really long.
Kiona 32:59
So yeah, the procedure. Yeah. Usually the procedures are pretty quick. The procedure itself with suturing, I imagine it’s probably like 30 minutes, the whole thing. But that.
Hannah 33:11
Maybe.
Kiona 33:11
Me in my mind.
Hannah 33:12
Yeah.
Kiona 33:13
Like with.
Hannah 33:14
I also have no conception of time at the UN that
Kiona 33:17
Right.
Hannah 33:17
day. Like at some point I was like, Wait, what time is it? And it’s been like 5 hours. And I’m like, Oh, I was it felt like 30 minutes. But
Kiona 33:24
Right.
Hannah 33:25
yeah, it was, it felt really quick from like getting the epidural laying down. Then they said, if I can feel anything and then they started maybe it was only a 20 minutes. But yeah, it felt like really quick and I like almost doze off because I was so exhausted that I think maybe I just fell asleep for a little bit and that’s why I felt like 3 minutes. And then I woke up again and then I almost fell asleep in the recovery room and then, we were able to eventually go home.
Kiona 33:53
man, that is such an adventure. With so many turns that were unexpected. First, the stall. Alan Cervix. That’s not something people really talk about and it can be really scary to hear that that happens sometimes. But everybody does a different thing. during labor. And the moving of the cervix that the midwife does. It can definitely be beneficial and help things progress, but it is
absolutely painful,
Hannah 34:27
Yeah.
Kiona 34:27
so people have to be ready for that. I’m not trying to scare listeners about that, but you got to be ready for it.
Hannah 34:34
Yeah.
Kiona 34:35
And I’m saying this as someone who also experienced it. I experienced it with my third and I was like, Oh, never again.
Again. So, yes, there’s that. And then so with your breastfeeding, did everything go super smoothly,
Hannah 34:54
I mean, it’s breastfeeding so I
Kiona 34:55
right?
Hannah 34:56
wouldn’t say yes to the and.
Kiona 34:58
Okay? Yeah.
Hannah 34:59
But I think the first couple of days it went really, really well. Like as I said, right after birth, he latched on really, really well. My doula showed me ahead of time how to do hand expressions and how to correctly put your breast into the infant’s mouth and how you can do different things that can help in different positions. so generally I felt like and I had some I read some books about breastfeeding, so I felt really prepared for it. And then like your breast started swelling up from getting the milk and I was like, Holy moly, this is a whole different journey. And then I started licking all over the place and I had all these gadgets, but they were super overrated and not really helpful. And I just got pads and I was like, Okay, this is fine. I don’t have to get all the collectors and all this stuff. And I think I had pain for a couple of days just because we were kind of getting into the groove of things. And I had a lot of milk in the beginning and my doula came by on the third or fifth day. I think it was like, Oh yeah, you’re, it looks like you have like a lot of milk that comes in like from what you’re describing. Do you want to try to pump a little bit off to take of the pressure? And I was like, Yeah, let’s let’s try it. And it was the best relief ever. I like didn’t pump before. It was like the first couple of days. It was like, I don’t know what to do with this and I don’t know how to use it. And just like I’ll show you, let’s just try it. It was the best relief. And after that it was really nice Because of the oversupply, it was just Hunter wasn’t eating all my supply so. I was just pumping on top of it. And of course, the more you pump, the more you produce. So it was kind of this play of like figuring out, okay, how much do I actually want to pump, how much do I want to breastfeed? And then I wanted to try to build a little bit of a freezer stash because I was going to go back to school and to work and kind of had this anxiety of not having enough for him when I live. But that’s one part that I take for my next journey. I think now that I also have a lot less responsibilities in my life and just have a little bit more focus on actually raising the baby is to not feed the freezer. I think that’s the biggest thing. That was a misconception of me, of like, I have to have this much milk. I still have milk stashed from January that I haven’t yet. Because it’s just it was so much I was like, Why? There’s no reason. And yes, I’m using the breast milk for like baths and like putting on his skin and bug bites and all these are the things that are wonderful to use it with. B I will never use all of this. I could supply our like skin issues for the next five years with the amount of milk I have. It’s ridiculous. I think social media has portrayed this like stigma of like, oh, you have to like, build this freezer stash to go back to work and it’s just not true. You need a little bit. Yes. And you need to work ahead a little bit so you’re prepared, but you’re going to pump while you’re not there too. So that already supplements the time that you’re not there then and then for the next day. Right. I think that was my own anxiety of like, I have to I have to do this. And it was almost like stressing me out more than I was enjoying the actual breastfeeding because I love breastfeeding. I love the journey like he was the perfect kid to do it with. He didn’t have any issues, like with latching or tongue tied. Nothing like really great. Of course, he had like ups and downs where he, like, wouldn’t eat or he would only eat for like 2 minutes and then stop. And I was like, Oh my God, I’m starving my child. What am I supposed to do? And then he didn’t take the bottle at all. So all those pumped milk didn’t do anything because he wouldn’t take the bottle. there were definitely ups and downs in this breastfeeding journey. But overall, I love it. And for for my next pregnancy and I’m going to tell myself, I’m not feeding the freezer, I’m feeding the baby. That’s going to be my the number one mantra for my breastfeeding journey. Number two.
Kiona 38:49
Yeah, I think that’s great. I think that is super awesome. I actually just recently had an interview with someone who also had a very large supply and baby just stopped breastfeeding. And so she was like, I have to relieve my. But I don’t want this milk to go to waste. And so she found a way to use her milk in everything, like not just with baths or skin things, but she’s like, Oh, you’re eating solids. Let me put your milk in your.
Hannah 39:15
Yes.
Kiona 39:16
Let me
Hannah 39:16
Yes.
Kiona 39:16
put it in your oatmeal. Let me put it in your juice. Like, mix it in your juice. Fine. Like you’re it’s it’s going to still give you benefits. Right.
Hannah 39:25
Yes. And that’s what I did then, too. It’s just you. You put it in everything you can take, then you use it for yourself. I don’t necessarily like the taste of it in coffee, but you can. and I think there’s even and I haven’t done that yet, which I wanted to, but there is even a service now where you can turn it into a powder and it lasts
Kiona 39:45
Mm hmm.
Hannah 39:46
for like years at a time. It’s pretty pricey, so I haven’t done it yet, but that’s
Kiona 39:51
Yeah.
Hannah 39:51
definitely an option if you don’t want it to get to waste.
Kiona 39:54
Yeah, that’s true. There’s also this app that I just came across in, like, I am not sponsored by this app by any means. I should reach out to her and say,
Hannah 40:03
Right.
Kiona 40:03
You wanna sponsor me? No, It’s called Share the Drop. I actually just connected with her, and it’s basically Bumble for breast milk. And so what you do is you create a profile. You say I have this much breast milk, and you can find breast milk based on your area code. And so if someone in your area is giving away milk and you need it, you can reach out to that person and say, hey, I’m in need of breast milk. Do you have any? And they’ll be like, Yeah, and you can just meet up somewhere and get milk.
Hannah 40:36
That’s amazing.
Kiona 40:37
Amazing. That is such a smart idea and I need to contact her to sponsor me for this show because.
Hannah 40:44
Yes, you should. Absolutely.
Kiona 40:46
No, seriously, I really do think that that’s a really awesome app. And she she made such that that’s such a great thing to do. But yeah, I didn’t actually know that there was a service where you can turn your breast milk into powder. That is awesome.
Hannah 41:01
Yeah, I think it’s mainly in Canada. R-alaska. I can’t remember. It was definitely north, but yeah, it’s possible.
Kiona 41:09
That is really cool. I love how people are coming up with ideas on how to not be wasteful. Helpful. It’s great. Okay, so you go through this huge event of birth and you are now nine months postpartum as of this recording. How has your postpartum mood been? And second half of that question is, do you find yourself focusing on different things since you’re a therapist yourself?
Hannah 41:41
Yes, Yes to both. So first, I think my mood. I think I’m still in postpartum. I think postpartum.
Kiona 41:50
Absolutely.
Hannah 41:51
Up until like at least a year, if not even two years after giving birth. So I
Kiona 41:57
I
Hannah 41:57
think
Kiona 41:57
honestly
Hannah 41:57
I still.
Kiona 41:57
say if ever like.
Hannah 41:59
Yeah. If
Kiona 41:59
Forever
Hannah 41:59
ever. Right.
Kiona 42:00
postpartum.
Hannah 42:01
Yeah. But I think your mood kind of regulates after between a year and two. And in the beginning, I definitely had like postpartum blues, so I was crying a lot. But it resolved within those two weeks that everybody says. And it was I feel like it was more tears of joy and then tears of sadness because it was such an overwhelmingly nice feeling to have him and to hold him and to, like, see his little face. And like, I was just like, so overjoyed that I, like, didn’t know what to do with my feelings. It was wild. It was like, so intense and. Then it kind of varied a lot. There were nights where there’s nothing we can do. Because he would be even worse when my husband would take him. So I was like, There’s no point having him scream. I can’t sleep anyways if I hear him scream, so why not just hold him and soothe him and like, just be with him? But that was really pretty heavy time where I felt like, okay, I’m like, I’m alone. I’m by myself. It’s like everyone’s like, Oh, yeah, we’re here for you. We’ll support you. But like, in these moments, you are truly alone with your baby and you’re going to have to somehow get through that. And that was really a point that I think was like, Oh, this is motherhood. And I was like, This is something I want to help others with. This is something that I want to focus my therapy practice on, to really be able to support new moms and be like, I get it. Like, it’s gonna be hard and it’s like, it’s okay to be hard. We don’t have to blue talk it or or make it sound pretty or say, Oh, it’s they’re only little ones. Yeah, but this is hard right now, so let’s accept it and let’s, let’s acknowledge that and be in this moment together. And I was lucky that I had a really supportive partner that did a lot for me and that was really helpful and like allowed my moods and was just like, okay, let’s take a break. And that I had friends that I could talk to and a therapist and just people that I can trust to just be my self-worth. And I didn’t have to pretend anything. I think I kind of prolong a time next time where I don’t have any visitors, because that was just an added layer of things where I was like, This is the first time I get you want to see like your grandchild and your nephew and like all these like people that want to see him. And I get that. And I didn’t want to be the person to say I’m not real can come into my house. But now that I have gone through it, I’m like, Well, but I’m also still wearing diapers myself and I can’t walk like I’m physically and emotionally and mentally recovering from this. So maybe let’s let’s give me some grace next time and
Kiona 44:42
And
Hannah 44:42
have
Kiona 44:42
vulnerable.
Hannah 44:42
some.
Kiona 44:43
You
Hannah 44:43
Yeah.
Kiona 44:44
are in such a vulnerable state. In postpartum time. Even now, you’re still vulnerable because people are coming in. They’re going to be like, Oh, why are you doing that with him? It’s not that they like. They’re judging your parenting and you’re. You’re a fresh parent and. You’re probably similar to how I was, and I’m sure many listeners can agree. When you are a fresh parent, even now as like a veteran parent with an 11. I’m like, Am I doing this right?
Hannah 45:11
Mm hmm.
Kiona 45:12
Like. And
Hannah 45:12
Yep.
Kiona 45:12
then when you do it, when people are questioning or saying like, Oh, you can’t do that with the baby, or just give baby formula or make sure baby has a hat on. Don’t forget to put socks like all of this input is.
Hannah 45:23
The socks.
Kiona 45:23
Yes, the socks!
Hannah 45:25
That’s why.
Kiona 45:27
It’s a little.
Hannah 45:28
Isn’t he cold?
Kiona 45:29
So overwhelming.
Hannah 45:30
On? No. He’s just not
Kiona 45:32
It’s fun.
Hannah 45:32
comfortable.
Kiona 45:33
Yeah. The baby’s socks don’t stay on anyways. Like what the.
Hannah 45:37
No.
Kiona 45:39
Gosh. So yeah, there’s so much vulnerability that comes along with being a parent. And I was just interviewing with someone else who had said that she had told her husband, I am sorry, I don’t want your parents to come. I don’t want your parents to come right now. Not because I don’t love them, but because I don’t want to have to host someone. Because even though they don’t seem like guests in the space, because they’ve been there before their family. They are guests because. Begin with them. And so I am a very strong believer in saying hold off on the visitors unless. Cumming has a role. Means are they going to come and hold baby while you nap or are they going to come and get some loads of laundry done and make sure that you and your husband get a shower or bring you food? You. To do something supportive. And not pull you out of the time when you could be sleeping or pull you out at the time when you can be showering, you know, because you need to be cared for too, just like babe you were. Into parenthood,
Hannah 46:44
Yes, I think it’s such a good thing to have roles. I think the one thing that worked really well is that lots of visitors brought food. I think that was a really big blessing of our situation of like we had a meal train that people brought food over. We had gift cards for different services that we could order food, and I think that was the most supportive service I could have wished for, is just having people bring food over. And I given I already prepped some stuff too and had some in the freezer, but it was just so nice to be able to like not cook. And I know my husband was doing like all the like chores and I was like, if someone could just come over and like, help him do these things, I think it would have been really nice. And again, it would have needed to be someone who just does it because he’s not going to ask for help.
Kiona 47:29
Right?
Hannah 47:31
So I think that’s that’s a good point of like I actually created a refrigerator task list, too, that you can find on my Instagram profile that you can just put on your fridge and be like, okay, there’s things on there that I need to get done. You can pick whatever you want to do. You can go walk the dogs or you can cook me a meal, you can do a laundry, you can unload the dishwasher or load the dishwasher or whatever it is you can do. You can just pick what you feel comfortable with. So I’m not putting something on you that you don’t want to do or you don’t feel comfortable with in my home, but you’re also feel like you’re helpful and you’re supporting me and the baby and not just want to hold the baby. Because I was a mom, I was like, I didn’t want anyone else to hold the baby. I did because I knew it’s okay. But it was like 10 minutes. Then I was like, okay, enough. He was also very frequent feeders, so I could always say, Oh, I can see his hand. He needs to eat.
Kiona 48:20
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Having that, ability to say, okay, it’s time for me to. Back. Yeah, absolutely. I really love that you have a refrigerator task list for your clients to refer to, because that’s huge. You know, a totally plays into the to what I was talking about earlier with giving everybody a role, giving everybody something to do, because hosting post-partum is not the way to go. It’s not. You lose on valuable time with being able to sleep and rest and. Recover for both you and your partner. You know, so if you’re coming in the door, wash your hands. Check a task off the list.
Hannah 49:02
Yes, exactly.
Kiona 49:03
Yes. Okay. So, wow, that was a really, really beautiful story. And I am so thankful that you shared it with me. Is there anything that we didn’t talk about today that you wanted to mention?
Hannah 49:17
I think just having the freedom of choices and knowing that it is your labor and your choice
Kiona 49:25
Yeah.
Hannah 49:25
and it’s your body. So don’t let anyone tell you this or that birth is the right or wrong way because You need to and I say this in quotation marks, Figure out what is going to feel right to you, because I, for example, went to like an OBGYN clinic first because it was my first kid, I was like, This is what people do, right? So I went to a clinic and started kind of my first one to, I think three appointments. And I was like, This is so unpersonalized. And this is again, my personal opinion and my personal feelings in this. But I didn’t feel like I had personalized care. So I did my research and was like, Oh, there’s birth centers around, let’s try this and see how I feel there. And I had my first appointment with Courtney at the birth center, and it was amazing. It was like I felt like I was in my living room, but like in my clean living room without my dogs around so I could like. Be comfortable but didn’t have dog hair everywhere, you know. And it felt like I was listened to. I could ask all my questions. It was like a personal conversation. They were like genuinely interested in us and who we are and like getting to know us and explaining everything. And I was like, okay, after this first visit, I was like, I think we’re going to do it here because it just felt right. So, you should know that you have the choice to change things too. You can try something. Maybe you try your birth center and you’re like, Oh, this is this is not clean enough for me or this is not hospital enough. I love hospitals. I need to go to a hospital. Right. Whatever is your personal preference I think is so important and that you have the ability to change your opinion, even if you’re all the way down the road. Right? Maybe you planned a homebirth and last minute. You’re like, Oh, I don’t feel safe. I want to go to the hospital. Or you planned a hospital birth and like last minute, I’m like, You know what? I’m just going to do it all. Like who now is right? And you just don’t know. But just trust that you do have that in everything that you do. I have a feeling. And if you don’t know what that feeling is or how it feels like, reach out to get help. Reach out to a therapist, talk through your feelings, talk through your experience. Not every experience out, every pregnancy goes by a plan. There’s ups and downs. There might be a traumatic experience. Maybe you’ve experienced some loss, so there might be a lot of complicated feelings towards a pregnancy and birth. But you have the power to to write your own story and to have that birth as you wanted to have.
Kiona 51:51
Yeah. No, I agree. I agree 100%. I really do. And that is actually like a perfect segue way into my three final closing questions that I have. Because my first question is what is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people to prepare for labor, birth and postpartum? so it kind of sounds like make your birth your own, you know.
Hannah 52:12
Yes. Expect the unexpected. Everything can change even in the middle of it. Get a good birth team, get people into the room that you trust, that you know are going to be there. It doesn’t matter who it is. It doesn’t matter if you have a partner or not, if you have a doula or not, if it’s your doctor, whoever it is, get someone in the room that you truly trust because there’s going to be a moment where you feel like you’re not yourself anymore. So you have to rely on the people in the room. And there are so many resources, so many different practitioners out there that can support you through pregnancy. Like don’t take an opinion and say, Oh, I have back pain. Well, that’s because you’re pregnant. Yes. And there’s massage therapists, there’s chiropractors, there’s acupuncture, there’s so much that people specialize in pregnancy that are trained in this phase of life that can help you reduce this pain, reduce anxiety, reduce the fear of losing a child, whatever it is that you’re going through, you don’t have to accept just what it is because there’s always something you can you can do if you want to. If you don’t, that’s okay too. But just know that there are resources and a lot more. People know. In the beginning I was like, Wow, there’s chiropractors that specialize in pregnancy and postpartum. What?
Kiona 53:31
Right, Right. Yeah, exactly. And that’s kind of like you don’t know until you know. Until you need it or you go through it yourself. So that’s the perfect segue into my next question as well, which is what is one resource that I can share with my listeners on your behalf? Do you have a specific resource in mind that you can share in addition to your refrigerator task list?
Hannah 53:50
Yes. There’s a book and it’s called Good Moms have Scary thoughts, too. And it’s a lot of comics basically illustrated pictures. And I think when I look through that like postpartum and I was doing a bunch of like postpartum trainings, too, and where it was recommended it just takes up the pressure off new moms and seeing that it’s some thoughts are very normal and postpartum can be extremely scary, but it can also be a chance of reinventing yourself and the way you parent and the way you see your baby. And also saying like it’s okay to be in a difficult place. So I think that book is a really nice reminder of that. Of course, I’m going to advertise therapy here. You don’t have to choose me. There’s Postpartum Support International. That is a really great website where you can find a provider close to you, You can find nurse practitioners, you can find psychiatrists that can prescribe medication, you can find therapists. Everyone that you would need in those time are going to be there that all specialize in pregnancy and postpartum. And they also have support groups. They have other resources that relate to postpartum. I really, really love them. And the third one is a local resource, which is APEX chiropractor. They do a neurological based chiropractic and. Really great to.
Kiona 55:11
I loved them. they were in one of my interviews for this podcast, a.
Hannah 55:15
Really?
Kiona 55:15
Hmm.
Hannah 55:17
To listen to that.
Kiona 55:17
Yes. Apex Chiropractic. They’re really awesome. Okay. Yeah, Those are all truly amazing resources and I love them all. They’re all really great. I also am really happy that you said one resource is therapy. Absolutely. And that’s not just for the birthing person or mom that. Of her
Hannah 55:38
Yes.
Kiona 55:39
partners. Because partners go through psychological changes and differences as well throughout pregnancy, labor or postpartum, all of it. So,
Hannah 55:46
Yeah.
Kiona 55:47
yeah.
Hannah 55:47
Absolutely. Same for couples therapy, right?
Kiona 55:50
Mm
Hannah 55:50
If. Want to do this alone. Do it in couples. You don’t have to have a marriage issue to come to couples therapy. I think there is a misconception of like, we have to have a broken marriage to be able to go to couples therapy while it can be actually very preventive and supportive, especially during pregnancy and postpartum, where it’s just everything’s new. You’ve never done this before if you’re a first time parent. And even if you’re not, it might add a layer of, Oh, now we have a toddler running around while we’re trying to take care of a newborn. Like what?
Kiona 56:19
hmm. Mm hmm.
Hannah 56:19
How are we going to do this? How are we going to manage? How are we going to even talk to each other because we don’t even have a minute to ourselves. So I think it’s a good opportunity to reassess our roles and communication and just do it in the guidance of someone who is, well, knowledge in that field.
Kiona 56:36
Yeah, absolutely. All right, Hannah, my last question that I have for you is if you could describe birth with one word, what would it be?
Hannah 56:45
Transformative.
Kiona 56:46
Transformative. Love it. 100%. Agree in all
Hannah 56:51
Yes.
Kiona 56:51
aspects of birth. Yeah, I love that. Thank you, Hannah. Thank you. So.
Hannah 56:56
Of
Kiona 56:56
Knowing your
Hannah 56:57
course.
Kiona 56:57
story and getting this positive energy out there about birth, as well as talking about how you can and should prepare for the unexpected.
Hannah 57:06
Yes, absolutely. I really enjoyed this conversation as well. I appreciate your time today.
Kiona 57:10
Yeah. I appreciate you.
Outro 57:25
During this interview with Hannah. I had such an awesome energy. I loved this conversation. I was so happy that she went into so much detail about all of the aspects of how she felt and what she did throughout her entire labor process. Hannah, thank you so much for bringing forth this positive energy about birth, especially because of the fact that it didn’t go as you anticipated. And the reason why I think that is so important is because it shows that even if something doesn’t go as you planned it to go or expected to go, it can still be a positive experience. And I’m so happy that you felt that very positive energy after birth to the point where you were like, I could do this again, even though it was really hard. So thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I am so excited to share this with the world and to show your strength and power through your story. So if you liked this episode, remember in the interview that we just mentioned Apex Chiropractic? Yeah, there episode is the episode that I mentioned earlier and the intro, which is episode 56 with Kirstin Spitz. She is talking about her experience with birth center birth, as well as a home birth. And they also talk about their apex chiropractic business and how they do chiropractic care by focusing on the neurology aspect of it as well. So definitely check that out because it is very interesting. Now, if you like the energy that’s coming off of this episode as well as all of the other birth as we know our podcast episodes, I would suggest that you join the crew by going to
birthasweknowitpodcast. com/community so that you can be involved in all things. And if you want to see photos as well as the show notes for this episode, head over to
birthasweknowitpodcast. com/75. There are also some really good definitions in the show notes, so definitely go check those out. All right, friends, thank you so much for your time today. I love you all and I will talk to you again soon. Bye for now.
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