Description:
When Ashley found out she was pregnant with twins she was very surprised, but not as surprised as she was when she found out that she was pregnant again. This is because she needed some assistant with getting pregnant the first time and the second time happened unexpectedly without any additional assistance. Tune in to hear the how Ashley did things differently her second time around.
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.
To hear another VBAC story listen to Ep.16-Sarah Ziroll-3 Births-Cesarean-VBAC-Birth Made Mindful
Resources:
- All Links for Ashley Holmes:
- Website: https://holisticfertilitycoachinc.my.canva.site/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashley_holmes3202/
- Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/ashley.holmes.3979
- Yoga Nidra:https://vibly.io/services/yoga-nidra-meditation-ashleyjholmes
- Holistic Fertility Coach Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/271957647919481/?ref=share_group_link
Definitions:
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Transcription of Episode 77:
Intro 0:08
Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I’ve realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you’re ready. With that said, let’s prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth state.
Disclaimer 1:06
As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your license provider.
Kiona 1:25
Before we dive into this episode today, I just want to say thank you so much for tuning into the birth as we Know It podcast. I am so grateful and honored to be in your ears right now sharing these amazing birth stories. And if you feel the need to engage even further, you can join the birth as we know It Podcast Group on Facebook by going to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/community In this Facebook group, we have a really awesome engagement and we really get to know each other and we ask a weekly question. And the question that we recently asked was What was the most unexpected thing that happened during your labor or birth? The answer is in the comments I feel like everybody can learn from. So if you have an answer that you would like to add, go ahead and put it in there. Now, in today’s episode, we are talking to Ashley Holmes and she is sharing her two different birth stories with three babies. One of her births is a cesarean twin birth and the other is a vaginal birth after cesarean. these two births are very different, not just because of the way in which the babies were born, but also the energy that Ashley carried each of these babies with. And after you listen to this episode, if you were intrigued by the details, I would also suggest that you listen to episode 16 with Sarah Ziroll. And in that episode, she talks about her vaginal birth after cesarean experiences as well. So without further ado, let’s go ahead and dive into today’s episode with Ashley.
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Earth As we Know It podcast. I am excited today to be talking to Ashley Holmes, who is a holistic fertility coach. And Ashley is going to be telling her birth stories of her twins as well as her singleton, which are two completely different stories. So we’re going to go ahead and dive into that. So welcome, Ashley. Thanks for coming on.
Ashley 3:24
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to share my story.
Kiona 3:27
Yes. we’re going to just dive right in because I want to know all the things. So tell me the process of when you and your husband knew that you wanted to have kiddos.
Ashley 3:39
Yes, we knew that we wanted to have kiddos and at that point in time I was still in my late twenties and didn’t think it would be an issue. I didn’t think that there would be any problems, that this would be easy, that all we had to do was start trying to go off of birth control and that wasn’t the case. I did those things and nothing happened for a very long time, and I was in denial for a very long time and thought, okay, when I choose to go down the road of seeing a fertility clinic, you know, this is either going to end in happiness or heartbreak. And just knowing that in my mind and and taking that step finally. But it took a while to get there because I knew that sort of once you go down that path and at the time I didn’t think that there was any other options. So I knew that that was where we were headed and it wasn’t exactly where I desired to be. But at that point in time in my life, I felt that was the only option available to me.
Kiona 4:40
Mhm. So when you did decide to go down the route of getting some fertility support through a clinic, what did that look like?
Ashley 4:49
It meant getting a referral from my doctor. It meant that at that point in time we had been trying for over a year, which by this point in time was probably 18 months. And so then getting the referral and being seen initially and then starting with some initial tests, right, both for me and for my husband to have a starting point, to have a basis of where to go from there. And there was no issues with my husband. And so then they start exploring and diving deeper into what was going on with me.
Kiona 5:23
Hmm. Yeah. Was there any specific diagnosis as to what was preventing for like a natural conception.
Ashley 5:31
No, that was sort of the frustrating, but also a blessing in disguise at that point in time was that it was unexplained infertility. So none of the tests showed anything. And I didn’t really ever walk away with any answers until later on. I sort of found my own answers.
Kiona 5:50
Yeah. So tell me about the conception process with your twins then. How did you become pregnant?
Ashley 5:57
I was given Clomid for six months and after three months the doctors had said, you know, this should have worked. By now. We’re going to move on to the next protocol, At which point I felt pretty defeated and deflated because I really had been trying to do everything down to an art, down to the science, to make this happen. And it hadn’t worked. And so the pressure was sort of off though, at that time in that waiting sort of period. And I still had this medication. So I still used it and that is when I was blessed with twins. And so I was very fortunate not to have to go and explore any further treatments such as IVF, but also knowing that that was one of the risks of using fertility drugs is that you could have multiples. And so when we looked at the ultrasounds, you know, the doctor said, can you see what I see? And I said, I said, to what do you see? Because I was like, is there more? I didn’t know. And so I was corrected, saying too. And when we left, I could just see my husband’s mind spinning of like two of this to him that like just 2 to 2 of everything, right? Because we were just trying for one, you know. And so this was a big surprise.
Kiona 7:22
I feel like getting pregnant with twins is always a surprise. Like, there’s. Like, even if you do go through the IVF process and then you put two fertilized eggs and there’s not like there’s no guarantee that both will stick. And so twins is always such, such a surprise.
Ashley 7:40
yes, definitely such a surprise. And so we did find out because it was such a surprise, you know, the sexes of them. And so we did know that it was a boy and a girl. And so twins was a big enough surprise. So I wanted to be prepared there after of of what to expect as much as possible. I think there’s only so much you can do. And until you’re in those shoes, you don’t actually have any idea of what is to come.
Kiona 8:09
Right? Right. And so when you found out the sex of the twins,was that done during the fetal ultrasound to like later in pregnancy where you’re able to see each baby’s genitalia
Ashley 8:21
Yes, it was later on. It wasn’t it wasn’t in the beginning. But yes, I did know early on, because that’s one of the benefits of working with a clinic is especially when I had never in my life had a positive pregnancy test, you know, like I was like I think this is it. I think we’re finally there, you know? And so I knew at day ten, which most people don’t know until way later on, but was, quite early on when I knew. So that was very exciting for me at that point in time.
Kiona 8:54
Yeah. Yeah. So what emotions were going through your head when you found out that you were having both a girl and a boy?
Ashley 9:02
You know, I was like, Well, that’s the dream, right? it really was. And I still feel very abundantly blessed to this day, but also at the same token, I walked away from the clinic believing that I couldn’t have any more children on my own, naturally, because they had no answers for my unexplained infertility. And so I walked away with a limiting belief. This is the only children I’m going to have because I’m not willing to go through this and through this process again. So I think that it’s important to recognize that sometimes what we believe and our experience can really sort of hold us back in the future and what we want to achieve moving forward. And I proved that that wasn’t my reality. And so I think it’s important to be mindful of those thoughts and emotions that are running through our mind and landing in our body in this process.
Kiona 10:02
Yeah, absolutely. And we’ll definitely dive into that a little bit later when we talk about your second pregnancy and how you got there. But let’s go ahead and stick to this pregnancy and talk about what it was like for you. Did you have any really intense symptoms or how was your body feeling when you were carrying two babies at a time?
Ashley 10:21
My body felt pretty good, except for the fact that I felt like a house, especially during the end. Like I did not see my feet for the longest time. I could barely put my socks or my shoes on towards the end of it and and it definitely took a lot of energy to sort of house two little humans inside of me. But I never threw up. I did feel nauseous for the first couple of months, but that passed and so in all aspects I felt quite good in general, but it definitely was a little bit taxing to my entire system as time went on. And I think that I really should have perhaps slowed down more, stopped work earlier and all of those things in hindsight. But I think everything turned out exactly as it was meant to be.
Kiona 11:21
Nice. Yeah. So knowing that you were pregnant with twins, was there anything specific that you did to better prepare yourself for what birth would look like? Or was it automatically understood that you were going to have a cesarean versus a vaginal birth?
Ashley 11:37
It was deemed high risk just because it was twins. And we did go to prenatal classes just to be in form. But even the instructor had said, you know, you will likely end up with a C-section, whereas she was telling everybody else, you know, like be empowered and, you know, you can do this and all of these things. And then I was kind of put in an in a different group. And that’s kind of how it ended up in the long run. But I did want to know as much as possible. And I also bought a lot of books about multiples and things like that. And then there became a point when I stopped reading them because it became all of the complications and all the things that could go wrong and all of these other things. And I was like, This isn’t helping me. This isn’t serving me. So I’m going to stop looking at all this information and really just tune in, because I think if I would have not done that, then I probably would have been at the hospital, not the doctor, so frequently, because I didn’t always feel to twins moving and I would have just been, in my head thinking that something was wrong all the time. And I was like, Just trust that you will know intuitively if there was something wrong or that something needs to be looked after because otherwise, I would have been at the hospital all of the time. And so that just wasn’t practical, ri, for them or for me. So I think that, you know, you do need to listen to your body, you do need to be seen, but also to just trust the process.
Kiona 13:09
Yes, there’s absolutely a moments when information can become too much information and it just plays with your brain and it messes with your intuitive thoughts like am I feeling this or am I not? You know, especially as a first time parent with being pregnant and having it be your first go round.
Ashley 13:26
Yes,
Kiona 13:28
Was there anything specific that you did to prepare for postpartum with twins? Like did you look into what breastfeeding would look like with twins, or did you automatically think or feel as if you were going to use formula or do a combo feeding system? What was your preparation for that?
Ashley 13:47
I had intended to be able to feed both of them, but that wasn’t what ended up happening. I didn’t have enough milk for two babies. I had enough milk for one and a half babies. So one was supplemented. And so, you know, I felt a lot of guilt and a lot of shame about that because that’s not how what I wanted. But my body just wasn’t able to keep up and to produce. And because one of them was a lot smaller than the other, they needed fed more regularly. They needed to be woken to be fed, they needed to be swaddled so that all of what they were consuming was used to help them grow.
Kiona 14:26
MM hmm. Yeah. And that is an interesting aspect with twins, isn’t it? It’s like even though they’re twins, they’re still two completely different human beings that have two completely different needs. So that is so interesting. And we’ll dive a little bit deeper into that when we touch a little bit more on postpartum. So let’s go ahead and dive into your birth with the twins. What was it like and how did you know you were in labor,
Ashley 14:53
It was scheduled and I was monitored. and they had almost held me in over Christmas on Christmas Eve, and I was like, Oh, please let me go home. This is not really where I wanted to be or I want to spend my Christmas. And it really was a month early and so I didn’t want them to come yet. And I was released and sent home. And they were born January six, so I made it a further stretch. there became a point where one had stopped growing, there wasn’t enough room, there just wasn’t enough space. It was time for them to come out. And so it was an induced labor. And then seeing where that led, but it ended up being an emergency C-section, which was quite scary to be on the operating table in the operating room. And they’re like, okay, if that one’s heart dips one more time, which would have been the third time. Then we’re opening you up. And so it was black and cold. And then all of a sudden the lights were on and like everybody was in there and all this action was happening. So it was definitely not ideal. And they weren’t kept together. They were separate. One was taken to a different floor in the hospital and one stayed with me because wasn’t the NICU, but it was sort of the next step down from the nick, you So that kind of devastated me a little bit in that, it wasn’t ideal. And when I was like, okay, I want to go see my child. And I went to get out of bed having never had a C-section before and not realising how hard that would be, how hard it would be to get there, how hard it would be to move and walk after having your abdomen opened. I think that there was a lot of things I had not been able to even fathom were going to be hard but yet you persevere and you do what you need to do. And, you know, I was like, I want pictures of my kids together and would not take no for an answer, you know, and took my one down to see the other one because it’s like you can’t keep them apart. They’re twins.
Kiona 16:53
right? Yeah,
Ashley 16:55
I think sometimes you have to advocate for yourself and for what is in your heart and what is going to give you peace.
Kiona 17:02
absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you. One question I do have is it sounds like your intention going into labor was a scheduled induction, meaning like you were intending to do a vaginal birth if that was possible. And then you were also open to the idea of cesarean if it needed to get there. Is that correct?
Ashley 17:21
Yeah, that’s correct.
Kiona 17:22
Awesome. Yeah. And so with knowing that you had that open mindedness with going into a cesarean if necessary, was there any fear behind knowing that if you did end up needing a cesarean, that it would have likely been an urgent or emergency cesarean?
Ashley 17:39
I don’t think I knew it at the time. You know what? All of these things would mean and what that would look like. But it definitely wasn’t the ideal position that I wanted to end up in. Absolutely not. And, I think that you sort of hold on to that for too long. Perhaps once they’re here and it’s it’s like they’re both healthy and to just let that go what you had envisioned to what you had planned or what you had hoped for wasn’t your current reality. And so I think that it’s important to bring peace to those aspects of your journey and to just sort of look at the big picture. Right. Because really what you want is healthy babies and healthy mom. And how that comes to be really isn’t the most important piece.
Kiona 18:30
I think that how a healthy mom and healthy babies comes to be like the process of that. It may not be the most important piece, but it is still very important because it determines how you go into parenthood, right. Like your confidence and your mindset of going into parenthood, knowing that you’re capable of still doing the things that you desire and feel the intuition to do, even if something doesn’t go as planned during your labor process, you know?
Ashley 19:00
Yes, absolutely.
Kiona 19:03
Yeah. So I am very interested in the idea of them separating your twins, because most of the things that I see show that when twins are together and they stay together, they have a better outcome than when they’re separated. Do you find that to be true?
Ashley 19:23
I think that was maybe 48 hours that they were separate and then they were together again because they were going to send me and one of them home and take us out of the hospital. But then we stayed for five days and they brought the other one up. And then we stayed together in the room, sort of as a family. So they did try to work with us and that definitely felt better in my body and spirit. Then if I would have been sent home and then try to bring the other one to the hospital to see their sibling would have been sort of excruciating at that point in time. And so I think the closer that they can be together and the bond can be, close, then the better off everybody is. And I think, when we did get home, we initially had them both in the same bed and they’d like turned towards each other. And it was the sweetest thing. Yet as soon as one woke, the other one woke. And so it was like, this isn’t going to be feasible over very long. That didn’t work for us for very long. It was adorable, but I was like, No, we need to have separate spaces for them to sleep so that there is some sleep being had around here because that wasn’t tenable in the beginning.
Kiona 20:40
Yeah, I can only imagine how sleep lists Everybody was. So do you feel comfortable sharing? The reason why they were separated? Was the smaller twin, the one that needed to get separated away? Did they have trouble breathing or adjusting? Holding temperature and things like that?
Ashley 20:58
Yes, holding temperature and just very small and just monitored. So needed monitoring devices on their body so that they were just kept an eye on to make sure that they were getting what they needed to get. And so that was the reason for it. probably if it was that were to happen now, it’d be a different story. But that’s the way it happened. At that point in time.
Kiona 21:24
Yeah. Interesting. And how far along were you when you gave birth to them?
Ashley 21:31
I was 37 weeks and five days.
Kiona 21:36
Nice. You made it pretty far.
Ashley 21:38
I did make it pretty far.
Kiona 21:41
Yeah, because It’s very common for people who are pregnant with multiples to go into labor earlier because of. all of the other factors. Can you remind me or inform me of what kind of twins they were? Were they mono zygote? Twins? Were they die? Die twins.
Ashley 22:00
They’re not identical twins. I can’t even
Kiona 22:03
Right. That’s right. Because there.
Ashley 22:05
they’re they’re both
Kiona 22:06
There.
Ashley 22:06
girls, so.
Kiona 22:07
Yeah. Yeah. So that means they had separate placentas.
Ashley 22:10
Yes,
Kiona 22:11
Got it. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. That completely slipped my mind.
Ashley 22:16
that’s all right.
Kiona 22:17
Great. Okay, So what was the first night at home like? did you feel? Happy to be home where you comfortable with the process of feeding to? How was that?
Ashley 22:32
Honestly, when I got home, I wanted to go back to the hospital because to have a bed that was inclined to get in and out of bed was really hard. And when I laid on my bed, my cat jumped on incision and I screamed and threw the cat. And my husband was like, What is going on? And I was just like, This is stressful.
Kiona 22:55
Yeah, absolutely. the hospital has things set up in a specific way to make it easier when things are medically necessary. And when you go back home and kind of lose those things there, you don’t realize that you kind of took them for granted when you were there. Right. Like just the ease of the process and then to come home and be like, give me all the pillows I need all of the pillows behind me. Keep the cat out of the room I need food. Who’s going to get me food? You know, all of those things that extra help just kind of goes away.
Ashley 23:23
Yes, I think we did our best at that point in time. But it was also a lot of newness and figuring it out. And my husband really was a godsend in that he took a month off of work because it was just like, no two hands are needed here. And then was figuring life out after that when he went to work and some days after 7 hours, I would phone him and be like, You need to come home. I need some more hands, you know,
Kiona 23:53
Mm hmm.
Ashley 23:54
can you please come and help? And he would so my mother helped me as well, because sometimes there just wasn’t enough hands to go around or it didn’t feel like that. if one was crying and someone needed something else, it was just, you can only do so much for so long until sort of that stress level was just like, this is really challenging. You know, I want eight hands right now and I don’t have eight hands.
Kiona 24:17
Yes, absolutely. So speaking of stress and needing to find that balance of support and no support, what was your postpartum mood like? Did you experience any postpartum depression?
Ashley 24:34
I didn’t experience postpartum depression, but I definitely experienced a level of exhaustion that I did not know was humanly possible because I was trying to feed my twins for them. And put them back to sleep. Okay. I’ll sleep the next time, you know. And there was just like, so little sleep had such sleep deprivation that I don’t think you really realize how much and how precious sleep is and how much better you function and can think and do everything with sleep. When the first time I had 5 hours of sleep in a row, like I felt like a whole new human being because I was like, Wow, I’ve missed that. So fides
Kiona 25:21
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think that is so important to mention, because there are many, many times when people just kind of talk about how amazing it is to be a parent. But then they really even though they just really forget to talk about how close to death you feel with the lack of rest, because you just go right? Like you’re just going and you know that you have to go and provide and do all of these things. And then you’re like, okay, you put the babies to bed, feed the babies, pump for the babies while they’re sleeping, and then you finally put your head on the pillow and 1030 minutes later, you’re all at it again, you know, maybe an hour, maybe. An then it’s just like this cycle. So You’re strong.
Ashley 26:08
plus,
Kiona 26:08
That’s the thing. It’s like I can’t imagine. because having one baby and going through that process of figuring out a balance is tough enough. And you had two.
Ashley 26:18
we kept charts and everything was sort of documented so that in the fog you knew who had what last when and what was there to help. It was like, okay, this one, this or this one needs that and can you help? And here is a bottle, here is whatever you need to. Yeah, all hands on deck. Really? Hands on deck.
Kiona 26:44
Literally all the hands. So tell me a little bit more about how you had to decide which baby was fully breastfed or which baby needed to have some supplementation.
Ashley 26:56
It really was sort of determined in the hospital by one being with me all the time so that one was able to feed when needed. And the other one milk, was taken down as much as possible, but then supplemented with formula. And so I had tried to take a herbal supplement to sort of help more milk to come. But there were just there was no more milk to be had stepped out.
Kiona 27:25
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s so interesting, you know, because a lot of people go through the process of trying to determine whether they have enough milk for one. And you have to. And your body can only do so much, you know?
Ashley 27:38
Yes.
Kiona 27:38
And there are some people who can successfully breastfeed two babies, but it is literally taking over their entire life because if they’re not feeding, they’re pumping. And if they’re not pumping, they’re feeding. And if they’re not feeding, they’re trying to feed themselves. But, you know, it’s a whole, whole process and it’s a lot more complicated than it even sounds. And it sounds complicated enough.
Ashley 27:58
Yes. I think in hindsight, looking back, I would have given myself a lot more grace and not have quite that pressure on myself. and probably would have been a lot more sane had I just put them on formula both from the get go, because then I would have actually got more sleep and felt more human and felt more like me and me and been a better mother at that point in time because I would have had more to give
Kiona 28:26
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And hindsight is 2020, right? We go and we have to go through it to see. Oh, this would have been a little bit of a better decision. How long did you breastfeed for?
Ashley 28:41
till around 13 months. I think I finally stopped.
Kiona 28:47
Wow. That is awesome. That is so amazing. I think that’s great that your body was able to produce enough to even supplement and breastfeed for that long. That’s great.
Ashley 28:57
Yes, I was happy to do it and it just sort of happened and evolved naturally in that my child was sick and didn’t want it. And then I just dried up and so there was there was no more. It’s just the way it evolved. And so a little piece of me was sad because it’s kind of a special bonding moment, but
Kiona 29:19
Right.
Ashley 29:20
it also can’t go on forever. So
Kiona 29:22
Yeah, for sure. So let’s go ahead and talk a little bit about the moment that you and your husband decided that you were ready for more children.
Ashley 29:32
it’s not necessarily that we decided we were ready for more children. It was that when my twins were about two years old, I had gone. Back on birth control, say, between the year of one and two. Just because I thought there’s no way humanly possible I can entertain the fact of more. And this at the moment.
Kiona 29:53
Right?
Ashley 29:55
And then I stop because I thought, why am I putting this medicine into my body when I couldn’t conceive in the first place and I just stopped and nothing would have happened had I not landed on my yoga mat. Had I not embodied ancient wisdom and healing practices and really sort of changed my lifestyle and healed my mind, body and spirit and come back into balance and alignment. So that was sort of my path and my own in learning of what actually was possible for me that I hadn’t explored or tapped into before previously.
Kiona 30:33
Mm hmm. And do you think shifting your mindset was a big step to take? Do you think it made a huge difference in how you felt about your mind, body and soul.
Ashley 30:45
I think I didn’t realize the power of my thoughts and how my thoughts were looping day in and day out and how I didn’t know how to get out of that and that I get out of that. And that thought could just be a thought and I could be a witness to that thought. So there was a lot of unlearning, I would say, of conditioning and programming and recognizing that I can choose my thoughts. But I also don’t have to amplify those with thoughts and feelings behind them. And to really not either put a positive or negative charge behind my experiences and that it’s not really good or bad, but just to accept what is in the moment, it really is a huge shift. And I think in the beginning I knew there was a whole sort of missing piece and I didn’t know what that piece was, but I discovered that piece. But I think a lot of us are really missing that mind, body, spirit, connection and really seeking that because intuitively, knowing that this doesn’t feel right or that there must be an easier, better way. And not having experienced that yet, but thinking and knowing that is possible.
Kiona 32:02
Yeah. that’s a great point. The possibility of the way your mind is at a specific point in time really does impact the outcome of the decisions that you’re making. I’m a strong believer in that. I talk about how the mind that you have when you go into labor really impacts how your labor turns out. So if you believe that you’re capable and you go really inward and really focus on your thoughts rather than saying, Oh my gosh, why is this happening to me, it should be shifted to, Oh my gosh, my body is so strong, I can’t believe I’m doing this. the words and the thoughts that you have with yourself make a huge difference. So love that you found that process for yourself.
Ashley 32:44
Absolutely. I think it really reflected my journey. The first time around. Right. Of being stressed, being anxious, really carried through the whole pregnancy. And you can see that in hindsight. How high risk pregnancy, emergency C-section, harder postpartum period. And then on the flip side, getting to experience the exact opposite of that is really a blessing. So I think that it’s important to know that you don’t have to let your one experience define the rest of your experiences.
Kiona 33:18
Yeah, I agree. Let’s go ahead and dive into that second experience for you. At what point did you find out that you were pregnant?
Ashley 33:26
I found out that I was pregnant by once again taking a pregnancy test and being very surprised and really just in awe of what my body is truly capable of, what I was really capable of without consciously even realizing at that point in time of what I had been able to create. Because I had been on this journey and doing this work and feeling the energetic shifts and changes and not fully realizing what I was able to tap into and what I was able to make possible for me. And really just a sense of joy because everything that I hadn’t thought was possible for me absolutely, truly was. And so I think it’s important to really honor yourself and congratulate yourself for these milestones that may seem small, but really are huge and really are pivotal in changing the trajectory of your life.
Kiona 34:35
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And so when you found out that you were pregnant, what steps did you take that you did differently This time around?
Ashley 34:47
The second time around, I really listen to my body and honored my body and took prenatal yoga, I was in the midst of prana meditation training when I was pregnant. So I literally did have this little Buddha baby in my belly. And so they really had a very different experience than the twins, because just my energetic state of being and my mindset was in a different space and place and the first time around and so that really carries through, you know, it really affects the pregnancy, the birth and the postpartum and who that little being is in this present day.
Kiona 35:32
Yeah. And so do you see a big difference in your singletons personality when it comes to calmness versus, like, anxiety and stress that’s potentially present with the twins?
Ashley 35:45
Definitely. There is definitely differences that I can just see present from the experiences that they had in the room and the birthing process and all of the rest of it. It really does play a big role and have an impact on their inner state of being because they feel your stress and they feel the shift in your tone or your mood or all of these rest of the things when you’re pregnant and carrying them. And so to think that those things aren’t in conjunction with one another is is really a disservice to you and them. You know, everything is affected right from the get go.
Kiona 36:32
Yes, it is. It absolutely is. And so throughout your pregnancy with your singleton, did you experience any really intense symptoms or was it kind of a really calm, cool and collected pregnancy
Ashley 36:45
It was really a cakewalk compared to the first time around. And I really wondered, you know, why single moms complained Because to me, this was a cakewalk. This was easy compared to my first experience. and even when he was here, I had him on Halloween. And the day that I had him in the morning, I sent my husband home to take my twins trick or treating because I said, I’ve got this, You know, you don’t need to stay. You know, I’ve got this. I don’t need your extra set of hands. I’ll see you tomorrow. And I did.
Kiona 37:20
Mm
Ashley 37:20
And all was well and all was fine. But I think that there was such a shift in me and my confidence in my capabilities and knowing that I had this compared to the first time around, it wasn’t unfamiliar territory. And it really was an empower process versus just letting everything unfold and trying to deal with what was in the moment, you know, and trying to just make it work versus knowing and being prepared.
Kiona 37:53
Yeah, absolutely. Let’s dive into that, because your birth was very different with the singleton verses with your twins. So you actually had a V back, which is a vaginal birth after your caesarean. So let’s dive into that.
Ashley 38:10
Yes, I absolutely did not want to have another cesarean. And so I was pretty determined in my mind that that was absolute last resort. so when I felt my water break in the middle of the night, I was like, Oh, it’s time to go. And we did go to the hospital and they sent me home because they’re like, You are not far enough along, so come back. So we came home, I went for a hike and he was like, Why are we going hiking? I’m not carrying you. And I said, I don’t want you to carry me. I want this baby to come out on its own. And so we had some spicy Indian food, and then we went back to the hospital and I was in labor for a far shorter stretch of time. And, you know, I was on a ball and in the shower and every time they put me into bed, I was trying to get back, go to bed because I didn’t want to be in bed because I knew that wasn’t the best place for me to be able to birth a child. And so finally I had my baby and an episiotomy because a little bit stuck and not coming out. And I thought, That’s fine. You know, do what you need to do as long as I’d rather you do that to me than to my child, You know, like I can heal quicker and faster than, say, using instruments to go in there and pull out the baby or anything like that. So I didn’t want that. And so out came the baby and out grew our family. And so I was very blessed with a little pumpkin on that day. And that whole experience really showed me and I was able to be back at Baby Amy Yoga, ten days postpartum. So compared to the first time around, was about a six week recovery from a C-section. I was able to come home and care for my other kids and help get them ready for school and to do all the things that I wanted to do and not be laid up and need so much extra help.
Kiona 40:19
hmm. And so can you remind me of the age difference between your kiddos?
Ashley 40:24
there’s close to six years between them. Big time span.
Kiona 40:29
Yeah. No, that’s. That’s a beautiful time span, though. There’s nothing wrong with that. because you had just mentioned them getting ready for school and doing those things. So at any point did you feel like you were, quote unquote, starting over after you had your third?
Ashley 40:43
Not really. I mean, in a way, because I’d given all of those things away, right? We we really were kind of starting over because we didn’t think that we were going to find ourselves in this position again. And yet, That’s the blessing of everybody already. Knowing my other kids was that everybody was happy to give us all of their old baby stuff. You know, everything just kind of gets recycled and reused and passed along to those needs because I had passed all of my things along to those in need that had had other children in those years. So I think, yeah, when you can really make space and be open to receive, then anything is possible. And I think to always know that you are divinely held and guided, even if it doesn’t feel like it, right, Because well, sort of like, oh, well, they’ve just sort of gone to school and now we’ve got another one. And, and so the way you envision your future has now changed, but it, it all works out and you’re exactly where you need to be. So I think just letting go of that resistance of any expectations or visions that you have in your mind, then just make making making the most of what is now available to you. And it turns out far better than you had ever even imagined.
Kiona 42:06
Yeah, I love that for you because it sounds like you had the support that you needed from close family, your friends, neighbors, even to, give you the items that you needed and to kind of just like come full circle and providing what you had provided to them in a way. So I think that’s great. So did you also breastfeed your singleton?
Ashley 42:30
I did not. And I chose to from not. And it wasn’t until my doctor came to see me after I had had my baby and was like, Oh, you’re not. I’m like, Well, this wasn’t even a conversation we ever had. But no, no, that’s, you know, I know that my baby is going to be just fine. And I knew what hard work breastfeeding was. And I also knew that it’s not as easy and you’re not as accessible when you have a little one attached to you. Right. It was fine when my kids were little and nobody else needed or had expectations of me, but I also had things to do. And so I just decided that that was what I was going to do from the get go. And that’s what we did. And therefore anybody could feed my baby and I could help my other two. And it didn’t all rely solely on me to be doing everything for everybody.
Kiona 43:26
Mm hmm. Yeah, that sounds like it was a really. intentional choice, which is great. You had thought through it. You had known the experience that you had with the twins and how you felt very like, Oh, my gosh. Like, I have to give, give, give, give, give, give, give, give and give a little more. So to be able to take that step back and say, hey, we’re just going to decide to make this a little bit easier on everyone so that you can feed them, you can feed them, you can feed them, and we can still get things done.
Ashley 43:55
Yes, I think there was just a lot of clarity of really, what I don’t want my day to look like? How did I want to feel? And, just having that intention and knowing that having help and having just some ease in whichever way, shape or form was going to serve everybody better at that point in time and make me a better mother and, really just coming from that state in place of when I know that I feel full, then I’m able to give at a higher level. Then from a depleted and drained state, which I completely was the first time around. there are options and to not feel any guilt or shame about it. I just decided that this is what works best for for us and our family and to be okay with that and anybody else’s judgments were their judgments and I was okay with that.
Kiona 44:53
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, nobody is in your shoes, right? Everybody has the right to an opinion, but it doesn’t have to impact the decisions that you make because you know what’s best for you and your family.
Ashley 45:06
Yeah, abs.
Kiona 45:08
Yes. So tell me about how things are now because your kiddos are older the difference between the experiences that you’ve had with your twins and your singleton impacted you so much in your life to open up this business that you have called Holistic Fertility Coach, Inc.. So let’s dive a little bit into that before we, round off this interview. Tell us more about that.
Ashley 45:32
I really, truly birth my business from my experience and knowing that there is not enough support for all the people that are trying to conceive out there that infertility rates are one in six, which is very high, and that everything that I do offer is holistic, it’s healing is natural. It’s working with your mind, body and spirit, and there’s no negative side effects. So really just empowering people to shift that locus of control from external to internal and to focus on what they can do for themselves day in and day out. Because infertility is stressful. But what are we doing with this stress? It goes a lot deeper than bubble bath or going to the spa and those types of things. Those types of things are relaxing and nice, but to really work with your nervous system on a deeper level and to heal your journey so far is so important because it’s impacting what is happening in the present moment, either consciously or unconsciously. And to really honor what you’ve experienced and been through. And the way that I do that is using yoga. And yoga is very similar to going to acupuncture for fertility. So it’s opening up for Meridian Lines in the same way. And restorative yoga, it’s very calming and healing for your entire system. And so doing meditations and chakra balancing, working with your energy body. And I offer Reiki and the sister science to yoga, which is Iyer Veda helps you to nourish your inborn constitution, which isn’t a fad or a diet or a trend, which is what you typically see a lot of out there. This works. For you and with you for your whole entire lifespan. And so I think it’s important to look at how you want not only your pregnancy to be, but also to have that information and knowledge to serve you for the rest of your life so that you can live a long and healthy life and so that you can be there for your kids. And then instead of thinking short term, to look at the big picture. And I really did look at the big picture when the pandemic happened and I was home with all my little ones and had gone from sort of teaching yoga in studios to wanting to serve and help people at a deeper level and to offer what I know is so truly needed in this day and age, because we live very yang lifestyles, very stressed, very busy, very hustle, masculine sort of culture that we’re in, and to bring in that feminine energy and to bring in balance and peace and harmony to our system, because we really need to be not in that fight or flight mode and in that rest and digest mode. And that’s really the space and place that my my business came from, because I know that I used to leave the yoga studio thinking what would line or bolsters, what would slowing down, what would that do for me? You know, how would that help me? And yet those were all the tools and resources that I needed to help bring my body back into balance in a natural and healing way. And I think we over these things in this day and age and don’t deem them as necessary when in fact it’s it’s very vital for for us and our health.
Kiona 49:05
Yeah, I think that is absolutely true because we are so stuck in this culture of instant genius results. Right? And it is so fast. So doing yoga, being present, internalizing like going inward gives you the opportunity to slow down like intentionally, mentally, physically and emotionally slow down.And that is where shifts can happen because when you have the time to let your body literally just be still and to let your thoughts be there, rather than thinking that your thoughts are exactly what you need to do and you need to react to them, you can observe them and let them be and let them pass that it doesn’t always have to be a box that’s checked off next to every thought. So I love that. I think that’s absolutely great. Do you do anything with herbs or anything like that? do you encourage like herbal supplementation or yoni steaming or anything like that when it comes to fertility?
Ashley 50:05
I to offer a lot of diabetic herbs and I do also refer people to an Ayurvedic doctor who can prescribe natural herbs and medicine specific to that person. Because I’m not qualified that far and I haven’t been doing this for 20 years. But she’s amazing and wonderful and really the goal is to help, your health and long being in the long run. And this well. And when you have that inner sort of awareness of these missing pieces that really the Western medical system doesn’t take much note of, it’s really important to to understand and you can bring east and west together, but it’s important to have sort of that holistic approach that is addressing all of your systems and all of you, and not just looking at the physical aspects and your physical body because you’re more than your physical body.
Kiona 51:06
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Actually, this has been great. I am so thankful and honored that You were here to share your birth stories with me because they were two completely different experiences, and I really valued that. You said to not let your first experience determine how the rest of your experiences unfold, because that is such an important mindset shift to encompass when you are, planning on having a bigger family or growing your family or even if it’s unexpected and it just happens that way. So thank you for that. So I just have three final closing questions for you. And the first question is what is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people to prepare for labor, birth and postpartum?
Ashley 51:56
breathing
breathwork utilize and to work with your breath, right? Because when you’re experiencing pain, your mind gets busy and so you can use your breath to instantaneous, see, bring the mind and body together and to anchor into that and you, will, literally breathe life into being. So it’s important to work with your breath and to practice breathwork because I did it the first time around. And so that stress and anxiety and when you’re feeling pain, you’re just absolutely tense. You can’t relax anything, any piece or part of you in that experience. And I think having that knowledge and information the second time around was, you know, you just keep coming back to it with every contraction, with every sensation, you keep breathing deeper and fuller. And finally life is born. And I think it’s so important and it’s often one of the most underutilized things that we can do and use day in and day out.
Kiona 53:05
Yes, absolutely. I agree with that. Breathwork is important. And the way that you breathe really determines how your labor goes, because your breath determines baby’s oxygen levels as well. And so it’s totally connected. So my next question to you is what is one resource that I can share with my listeners on your behalf?
Ashley 53:27
I would love to share with you about yoga and meditation. So that’s N-I-D-R-A and I offer these weekly on the Health and Wellness platform Vibly. And these are meditations. You can also find them online or on apps. But these are the best meditations for you, especially if you think that you can’t meditate or that you’ve tried it and you cannot do it because you cannot do this meditation wrong. It’s like a yoga sleep. Although the intention is not to sleep, but also knowing that 20 minutes of yoga is equivalent to 4 hours of sleep. So if you can do this for yourself as a new mom, even if the baby is only down for 20 minutes, it is going to be a reset and a recharge for your whole entire state of being and give you that extra little bit of fuel that you need to make it through till either your partner is ill or until they’re down again, or whatever it is that you need. But it is really just the best meditation out there in my personal opinion and something that you may not have heard of before or tapped into.
Kiona 54:50
Now, my final question to you, Ashley, is if you could describe each of your births with one word, what would they be?
Ashley 54:59
the twins. I would say surprise, because there was so many surprises along the way. And there still are. And for my singleton, I would say miraculous because it was simply miraculous the way that everything unfolded. And all of them have just been absolute blessings and also taught me, you know, what what my body is really capable of and what I am truly capable of.
Kiona 55:30
Yes. Oh, I love that so much. I really do. And I think that both of those words fit based off of what I just heard of your stories, because finding out you have twins is a surprise from the get go. And then just miraculously conceiving naturally and having the birth be so completely opposite of what you experienced the first time is so amazing. Yes. So, Ashley, thank you so much again for sharing your stories. I’m so honored that you shared them with me today. And I’m sure all of the birth, as you know, our podcast listeners, those that are part of the BAWKI community here with us today, are going to enjoy it as well. So thank you so much.
Ashley 56:09
Thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure.
Outro 56:25
During this episode with Ashley. I really liked that she focused so much on the fact that the way that a parent feels while pregnant goes into how baby feels as well. And I know there’s some things that we can’t control as pregnant people as we go throughout life. And the stresses that come into our bodies with pregnancy. But when we do have the ability to contribute to calmness while we’re pregnant or caring for our children, it makes a big difference. So, Ashley, thank you so much for sharing your stories with us and for enlightening us and reminding us about how our bodies are truly connected to our babies while pregnant and postpartum. If you want to check out the show notes for this episode with Ashley, you can go to birth as we know what podcast dot com forward slash seven seven. Now if you liked this episode, I highly suggest you check out episode 16 with Sarah Ziroll. In that episode, Sarah talks about her first experience of an unplanned cesarean and that experience being followed by two vaginal birth after caesareans at home. So to be back at home, that is a great story that you’re not going to want to miss either. And if you have a story that you want to share in the podcast, go ahead and go to birth as we do a podcast dot com and fill up the guest request form. All right, friends, I’ll talk to you again soon. Bye for now.
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