Description:
Nicky was birthed into motherhood through adoption, but it was far from easy for her and her husband to have a baby placed with them. The birth mother of their son Jack also had an interesting situation that caused Nicky and her husband to be stuck in California for 3+ weeks before being able to take their baby back home.
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.
Want to hear another adoptive parent story? Tune in to 73-Lindsay Bruggeman-Adoptive Parent- 2 Births-1 Cesarean & 1 Vaginal
Resources:
- Nicky Yazbeck,CISW: www.nickyYyoga.com
- The Connected Community: Exploring Possibility:https://www.youtube.com/@TheConnectedCommunity/videos
- Breast Milk App-Share The Drop: https://sharethedrop.com/
- Perinatal Support of Washington: https://perinatalsupport.org/
- Postpartum Support International: https://www.postpartum.net
Definitions:
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode!
If you want to share your birth story or experience on the Birth As We Know It™️ Podcast, fill out this Guest Request Form.
Support the podcast and become a part of the BAWKI™️ Community by becoming a Patron on the Birth As We Know It Patreon Page!
Want to be in on the fun conversations and part of an awesome community? Join the Private Facebook Group!
Photo credit of first image goes to April Pinto (https://www.aprilpintophotography.com/)
Transcription of Episode 79:
Intro 0:08
Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I’ve realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you’re ready. With that said, let’s prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth state.
Disclaimer 1:06
As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your license provider.
Kiona 1:25
Hey, you. Thank you so much for tuning into the Birth As We Know It podcast today. I am so thankful that you’re tuning in and you get to enjoy this amazing story with me as I interview Nicky. On her journey of being birthed into motherhood through adoption. She talks about what the adoption process is really like as well as a little bit about what she’s doing now. So stay tuned and I’ll see you on the other side. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It Podcast. Today I am interviewing Nicky Yazbeck who is going to be talking about her journey of being birthed into motherhood through adoption. So, Nicky, welcome. Thank you so much for coming on today.
Nicky 2:06
Thank you for having me.
Kiona 2:08
Yes. I am so excited to get into this story because I’ve only had one other adoptive parent on the podcast. I have had an adoptee who talked about what it was like for her to birth and finally be biologically related to someone. So that was very interesting and I’m excited to dive into your perspective because in your guest request form, you had mentioned that you’d never really tried to have a baby on your own before you decided for adoption, so let me know more about that. How did that go for you?
Nicky 2:40
Well, in a past life, I was married to another person, not the partner with now, who I’ve been with for almost 20 years. And we didn’t use protection. And I was open to getting pregnant, but I just didn’t have a timeline of that. And we were together for quite a while, I think six years and nothing happened. And so I felt like there was something there. When I met my husband, now that I’m with I said to him, ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to have a baby and adopt a baby. And are you open to that? And he said, Yes. And then we were together. I met him later in life, so I was 36. He’s ten years younger. and same thing. We didn’t use protection. Nothing was happening. And I just decided to just jump straight to adoption, which I don’t think is the typical story. But I had seen when my friends had gone through fertility treatments and they were really struggling and it was breaking up marriages and it was so hard and it was so stressful. On both of the partners, and I just didn’t want that. When I went to the doctor, everything seemingly seemed normal, but we just really jumped straight to adoption. When we made that decision, I thought, my husband’s ten years younger. I was on the fence about 5050 if I wanted a kid or not. I was. Our marriage was so beautiful and so strong and so powerful. And I was a little scared that something was kind of wedge in between us. And I had worked for an adoption agency before, and so we made an appointment to go talk to an adoption agency and just gather information. And then when we walked out of there, I said, Let’s just sign up. Let’s just do this. Adoptions, a really long process. and it’s a really complicated and hard process. And I think most anybody that’s gone through the adoption process would mirror that information. So from the date that we signed the paperwork to the date that we connected with our little boy, it was almost two years. And so emotionally that’s draining as well. you’re waiting to get a phone call. You’re waiting to get a phone call. They call it’s not the call you’re wanting. Things fell through. He was our fourth referral. We were open to race and gender, but we wanted healthy and we kept getting these referrals that were not healthy kids. And so we were turning them down. One was like addicted to methamphetamine. Another one had a brain bleed, like all these things. Another one, they gave us a referral for a three year old and we just wanted like a healthy newborn. And so there was a lot of, you know, you get the call and they and they’re like, we have a match for you. And then there’s this big excitement and then there’s this big letdown. So it’s super emotionally draining. But it happened. It happened and we got him. I would say that in almost the 20 years I’ve been with my husband, it was probably one of the hardest things we’ve gone through as well, just the emotional toll of the whole adoption.
Kiona 5:27
Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that really sounds challenging because, you know, when you go into a pregnancy, you know that you’re going to have a baby nine or ten months, right, If everything goes smoothly. But with this adoption, you’re getting referrals. And one I respect the fact that you kept up with your boundaries because some families want children so bad that they’re willing to make exceptions on what it is they were looking for. So I respect that. You know, I think that’s really important to mention that because you had this vision of what you wanted your life and your family to look like. And you waited to make sure that as close as possible, you got the bare minimum of what you were hoping for, which is a healthy newborn baby. The other thing that I really enjoyed about what you just said is the fact that you were open to all ethnicities, either sex like you were just open to it and all you wanted was a healthy newborn. And I also appreciate the fact that you and your husband were in this decision together. And both of you had contributed to the desire of what it is that you wanted. So I think that’s great.
Nicky 6:37
Yeah. I think also, too, when you’re doing adoption, the mothers underreport. So they under-report alcohol use, they underreport drug use, they underreport, you know, ment health issues. And so even when you’re specific about, you know, it, it’s a little bit like you don’t have control over the mom’s diet. If she’s taking prenatal vitamins, if she’s using like you don’t have much control over that. The interesting thing was when I went to the adoption agency, I said to them, I really want a birth mother that loves her baby. And isn’t in a situation where she was raped and she’s like, Get this thing out of me, like hating this, child. It’s inside of her. And they a little bit laughed at me and on Have you seen that movie Juno? But they’re like, This isn’t Juno. And they thought that was a little silly. But we got that. We got the birth mom. We got the birth father that just loved, loved, loved. This child still loves him. so there was that deep connection. And that was something that was really important to me. I wasn’t sure if I was going to get that, but we did. And I so I feel like there was love going towards him while he was in her womb. Not that that was easy, not that she wasn’t struggling and not that there was a lot of conflict around that for her. And I think that was probably one of the her hardest moments in her life. But we got that beautiful connection. And I’ve got pictures where the birth mother and father are holding him and all you can see is just love in their eyes, like it’s so clear that they love him. And so the adoption was done out of complete love. And I thought that was so beautiful.
Kiona 8:12
Yes. Oh, my goodness. That’s so important to you and the fact that you have that photo for your son to look back on and say, look, your birth family loved you, too. That’s truly beautiful. Now, is this adoption an open adoption? Does he get to communicate with his birth family at all, or is it a closed adoption?
Nicky 8:31
It’s open And we did the adoption in California and in California, it’s open. That means different things for a lot of people think open is just like wide open and open really can mean you’re keeping a connection and there’s letters once a year, things like that. It’s not enforceable as far as I understand. What we did was once a month for the first two years, I would send the birth mom a big, long letter about everything that was going on and then photos. And then after that it was more sporadic. That was kind of our agreement and it was more sporadic. Or she would just text me and I would send her photos and just give her an update of what was going on with him. I think it was around 18 months. We did a visit and we went to where the birth mom and father were, and they got to see my son Jack and spend time with him. And we all spent time together. I think that was really beautiful, I think was really hard for them, was really healing. And my little boy didn’t really have a concept of who they were, even though we were explaining. As he got older, she wanted to see him again, and that’s where we were not okay with it, because at some point with his development, it was going to be confusing. And so we wanted to make sure like that he was secure and that he wasn’t confused. So since the day, you know, you talk to kids and you’re like, it’s a ball, it’s milk, it’s whatever. Like we were saying, adoption from the day he was born. So it’s not this scary, secretive thing that we’re trying to hide from him. We’re very open about it. It’s not something that has a negative connotation. And so he’s always been really clear that he’s been adopted. And then probably nine months ago, about once or twice a year, I asked him, Do you want to have. Now that he’s older, he’s ten and a half now, do you want to have a contact with your birth mom? And he was always saying no, and he doesn’t really ask much about her. I don’t think he wants to know a lot about her. And this past year, he said he was open to it. We set it all up. The day came. He didn’t want to talk to her. then he did again later, maybe like a month later. And so we had a phone call with my husband and myself and Jack and then the birth mom. it was really beautiful. my son was very. Nervous. And he had me and my husband on either side of him, and he kept pulling his arms around us and like squeezing us towards him and just really like a little bit clingy. And so I had these conversations, you know, before and after that, talk about, I’m your mom and nobody can take you away from me and this is your birth mom, and you can have contact with her whenever you like, and it’s up to you like you hold the keys to how much contact you have so it’s always what’s best interest for him. I know a lot of people in my life have. Had trouble hearing this story because they freak out and their panic, you know, turns on when they hear this. And I’m not saying it’s easy for us and that not even sometimes necessarily what I want, but I’m always thinking about what’s best for him. And I wanted him to know that he was loved in this world and that he has choice and he has control over this. And so those conversations are beautiful and they’re painful for all of us, and they’re healing for all of us. And they’re complicated, So it’s been it’s been a it’s been a journey.
Kiona 11:53
Yeah. And so with the adoption of that birth mom, when you did get placed with her. So we’re just backing up a little bit. When you did get the referral for Jack, did you get it after he was born or were you like, Hey, this person is pregnant? You can follow her throughout pregnancy. What did that look like for you?
Nicky 12:11
Yeah, that was complicated, too. So they called me. I was traveling for work and I was in D.C. with on, like, a sales. I was doing sales at the time and I get the call and I and it’s I answered, I’m with my boss, like, at a meeting and I get the call and leave and they say, We have a birthmother for you and she’s pregnant and she’s going to give birth. ASAP. You need to drop everything and come to California right now. And they didn’t give me that much information. They said there was a little bit of a complication around the birth father, but they’re like, well, you know, your husband and he’s amazing and this is all just going to get sorted out. And crazy thing was before the adoption, we’d been waiting 22 and a half months and I was getting tired of waiting. And so I had packed this full size suitcase full of gender neutral clothing and diapers and bottles. And like everything, I had this huge bag packed and ready to go, and it was sitting by the front door. My family thought I was crazy. They were a little concerned about me and my mental health, but I had put that suitcase there maybe two weeks before I got that call called my husband. I’m like, Oh my God, we need to get to California. We it’s a long story, but we were temporarily in Alabama at that moment. So I flew from. meeting meeting back to Alabama. We couldn’t even get flights out. So we went and drove to Atlanta, got a flight out, went to Santa maria, California, and we meet her. We meet her and the birth father and her mother. And we go to lunch. My husband and I. And she’s pregnant. She’s enormous. And what was interesting was that her mother had been adopted.
Kiona 13:55
Okay.
Nicky 13:56
And so I think that that was part of like this whole process and her it was lovely. She was really young. She was 19. We connected. They had said they had this name for him where they were. Well, they asked what we were going to name him, and I was a little nervous because we had already kind of picked out our names and I said it was going to be Jack Dylan. And she said, Oh, we’ve always thought of him as Aiden. Like, that’s the name that we’ve had for him this whole time. And I said, Well, we’ll call him Jack. Aiden. Like, that was actually on our short list anyway. And so she was super happy with that. We went back to our hotel room and like, days went by and she wasn’t in labour. And then we get an email from the adoption agency and they tell us that there’s, like, buried in this paperwork that they gave us that they weren’t very transparent. And this is actually not completely unusual for adoption agencies to do some stuff like this, like, unfortunately. But they said that the birth father had contested the adoption so was really complicated. And I said to my husband, okay, let’s go home. Like, if this birth father is contesting this adoption and he wants to keep this child, like, I’m not going to get in the way of that. Like, let’s just hop on this plane and go home So we ended up. I used to work for an adoption agency. I called the adoption attorney at that. adoption agency and told her this whole story and asked her what to do. And she said, There’s a mediator friend that I have that’s an adoption attorney. I want you to talk to her. And this attorney said to me, you know, when you have a kid, once you have them, you’ll do anything. You’ll go to the ends of the earth. You’ll do anything for that child. Well, he doesn’t have anybody in his life right now. And you’re that person and you need to be there for him in that way. And that just kind of shifted whatever was going on in my head around this adoption. we hired an adoption attorney. And I was like, I call my family. I’m like, this is going to be so expensive. Like, this is just insane. Like the cost of this was just adding up. but here’s this little boy. He’s been born. He’s healthy, you know, like a healthy kid. Right? they wouldn’t let us mediate with this birth father beforehand, like the attorneys wouldn’t mediate. So I’m in the hospital with Jack. He’s in the room with us. He’s banded with us. We’re sharing a room. And I don’t know what happened. It’s just bizarre. Like, my nervous system must have been freaking out. I think I did something with, like, the hand sanitizer. My eyes. I don’t know what happened, but I had an allergic reaction. And my eyes swelled shut. they were like little slits. so we’re in the hospital and they can’t give me anything because I’m not technically a patient. So I asked my husband to go to Walgreens. I’m calling him. He’s I’m like, my throat is closing up and I don’t know what to do. He’s like, if you need to go to the emergency room downstairs. So anyway, he gives me Benadryl. My face is like, all swollen. I’m a big hot mess and we have to go to court the next day. And because we weren’t expecting to go to court, I have yoga clothes and jeans and all of this stuff. So we go and we show up in court and I’m on like yoga clothes. My husband’s in jeans, the birth father’s in a suit, and my face is like completely swollen. I can’t even wear makeup because my eyes are swollen shut anyway. We talked to the attorney and we have to make an agreement that we will not leave the state. So That was what was in the paperwork. There was a restraining order against Jack that we couldn’t leave the state. That was what was in the paperwork. And we’re like, Oh, my God. So we made an agreement with the attorney and with that guy that we would get genetic testing. We would do all this, and if something was contested, we would return back to California that we could go home, but we could return anyway. At the end of that meeting, we meet with the birth father, and all he really wants is to have contact with this child. He doesn’t want to raise him. He doesn’t want to be super involved, but he just doesn’t want to lose contact. And so we create an agreement. Same thing that I did with the birth mom. Like I’ll do letters once a month for the first two years and then we’ll do yearly, contact and reports. But I said I didn’t want him to have any contact, any physical like face to face contact, but that we would agree that he could meet Jack, that we would bring him and he could meet Jack as this newborn. So we wrapped all this up. We agreed to all of this. And then there was the birth mom. This is a little complicated here, but the birth mom was with the birth father, the one that we thought was the birth father. boyfriend that she was with a year for a year and a half. And she had had this indiscretion with this boss. And this was the one that contested the adoption. She was sure that he was the one that was the birth father. And so when we were in the hospital, we did genetic testing and so we went to Walgreens, swab the birth father that was the one her boyfriend swabbed her and then when we’re going to meet the birth father. Right. The one that we’ve made the agreement with and we’ve gone through the legal stuff with, we’re driving down to meet him with Jack, to have him meet Jack for the first time. we get the results and he is not the birth father. And it’s a 99.9% match for the boyfriend that she’s been with for a year and a half. So we’ve gone to court, we’ve done all this stuff. It’s been a huge mess. Now I have to call her and tell her it might end like now. Jaques Bourne We think everything’s fine. We’ve worked everything out with his birth father like everything’s fine. And now I have to say, like, This is not the birth father, and it’s the boyfriend that you’ve been with for a year and a half. And I’m scared she’s going to change her mind. And so I call her and I say, I have something to tell you. I need you to sit down. It’s pretty big news. This other guy isn’t the birth father. It’s, you know, your partner that you’re with now. And she starts crying. And I’m thinking she’s going to change her mind. Yeah. And she didn’t. And he was the one that supported her through the whole adoption, even though he didn’t think it was his child. He just gave this child love and support and talked to her belly and was just so loving and so supportive. And so we were terrified. The birth mother has 30 days to change their mind after the adoption. After the placement. And so that 30 days like so we we we had Jack we took him we took him back to Alabama. And, you know, we’re just waiting out this 30 days, like biting our nails, trying to get through this 30 day process, and then nothing happens in that 30 days. There’s no celebration, there’s no email, there’s no letter. It just kind of comes and it passes. And so that’s a little brief summary of the whole process.
Kiona 20:36
Oh, goodness. Obviously, there is a ton of moving parts in that story you just shared. So just for clarification, this birthmother has been with a partner for a year and a half. But there was a moment when she had sex with someone else who she worked with. You’re saying.
Nicky 20:55
Yeah, I think he was her boss.
Kiona 20:57
Okay, so she had sex with her boss, and then that was who she thought the birth father was.
Nicky 21:03
She was like 100% sure.
Kiona 21:06
Hmm.
Nicky 21:07
Strangely enough, he was Hispanic. She was Caucasian. And when Jack was born, he looked 100% Hispanic. We were like, Sure, he was Hispanic. And then something happened like later with his skin, his skin changed colors and his face changed a little bit. But it was like when he was born, we’re like, Oh, this kid’s Hispanic. Sure it’s
Kiona 21:27
Yeah.
Nicky 21:27
this other this other dad, For sure.
Kiona 21:30
Yeah. And I mean, I will say from the pictures that you sent, like he looks like he has some tone to him.
Nicky 21:35
Yeah.
Kiona 21:35
You know, he does have a little bit of olive skin. He is such a cutie, by the way. He’s adorable. So it was the boyfriend that she had for a year and a half. Was he also Caucasian? And then did he ever get genetic testing done?
Nicky 21:51
Yeah, I swabbed her and the boyfriend she was with for a year and a half. And he was the real dad.
Kiona 21:56
Oh, okay. So did both of the men get swabbed then, or just one?
Nicky 22:00
Just one because it was a 99.9% match.
Kiona 22:03
Okay.
Nicky 22:04
And I don’t know what made me do that either. I was like, Oh, we’re just going to, go to Walgreens and do this genetic testing.
Kiona 22:10
Wow. Okay, so just for my brain to wrap around all of this. So in the court system, you were talking to the affair partner. That’s the one that you were setting up this agreement with. And. Got all of this stuff done. And then when you were on your way to take Jack to go see this man thinking it was his biological father. You get the results from the swab that you did on her current partner.
Nicky 22:37
Yep.
Kiona 22:39
That said that he was a 99.9% match of the biological father.
Nicky 22:43
Yeah.
Kiona 22:44
Got it.
Nicky 22:44
And when she approached us about the adoption, she was basically like, This guy is a bad guy. who she thought was the birth father. I don’t want to have anything to do with him. I want him out of my life. I don’t want this child to have anything to do with him. do whatever you can to, like, get this guy not involved. And so he agreed to the adoption, and he wasn’t going to be super involved. But yeah, it wasn’t his child. And when we told him, he was like, oh, my gosh, thank goodness like that, you know, he didn’t want that, but he had lost a child. In a similar way before with another woman. And so he wanted to have that connection anyway. He wasn’t the birth father. It didn’t matter. But yeah, it was super complicated. And then imagine for them to find out that they’d been together a year and a half. They actually got married after. Jack was born, they got married. And since they’ve gotten divorced, but there was a lot of love between them. And I think that was probably one of the hardest things for them to go through. But Their family was not willing to financially support them. They weren’t able to financially support themselves. And I think she was, you know, 18 when she got pregnant. So it was just a lot for her.
Kiona 23:52
Yeah. Yeah. It’s really hard as a teen mom to, figure out what to do if you don’t have support. I was fortunate. My husband was 18 and I was 19 when we had our first child and we had a network of support behind us which made it possible to move forward. But yeah, you know, the choices that people have to make in order to make sure that their baby is healthy and safe, adoption is a great option for that. To know that they’re going to go to a loving family, to someone who wants a child, and to someone who is willing to love on their child as if they are their own because they are their own, you know? So that’s that’s amazing.
Nicky 24:30
And I think adoption is such a harder choice as a birthing mother. Like, I honestly can’t imagine how difficult that would be. But if there’s a choice between abortion and adoption, I mean, I think for a lot of people, abortion would be an easier option. And adoption is just like your carrying it for nine months and you have this beautiful connection. And then you’re having to release this connection. I imagine that’s. I just can’t. That’s got to be the hardest thing.
Kiona 25:01
Yeah. And I mean, I’m sure there are people that come to adoption as their option because they really, really want to keep their baby and then they’re later in pregnancy and realize that they can’t. And, abortion is no longer on the table. And at that point, most people don’t want to abort anymore, one, because legally they cannot. But also they have this connection now. So, turning to adoption at that point could be their best choice.
Nicky 25:28
Yeah. I mean, I think it helped the birth mother’s mother had been adopted, and she’d had a pretty good adoption story. And so I think that that was helpful in the process and probably helpful in her decision.
Kiona 25:41
Yeah, I would say so for sure, because they have that person that is literally so close to them connected to the adoption system and the adoption process that they have her to refer to with all of their heavy questions. And from the perspective of being the one that was adopted, being the adoptee, how was life for you as an adoptee and then knowing that their biological son is going to be an adoptee as well?
Nicky 26:05
Yeah. Yeah.
Kiona 26:06
Yeah.
Nicky 26:06
I mean, it’s funny. I live on a cul de sac now with there’s like 14 homes on our little cul de sac, and there’s three families on our street that have kids that are adopted.
Kiona 26:16
Beautiful.
Nicky 26:17
it’s really common. So I think it’s it’s we keep meeting families and I keep talking about how different families look different ways. Right. We have friends of ours that are two men that are together that just had a surrogate and we’re hanging out with them. And some have two mommies. And like families all look different. And so I think that that’s getting more normalized than it was, 20 years ago, which is kind of nice.
Kiona 26:39
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And yes, there are so many ways that families come together. You know, there’s those unofficial adoptions. I actually have another podcaster friend. Her name is Jayna Marie. She’s the host of the Big Lash Energy podcast, and she adopted a young lady named Arzu who lived down the street from her house. And she was adopted at 15 or 16 because of a situation. So she was adopted later in life and she’s like, cool, automatically a mom to a teenager. Let’s figure this out. You know? So families come together in so many different ways. And that’s truly what’s beautiful about what it can look like to be a family. If you really open your mind to what families look like.
Nicky 27:20
Yeah. Well, they’re saying they when in adoption, they say there’s really two kinds of families. There’s families that come to adoption to grow their family. And then there’s other people that come to adoption just to help and to be of service. And to nurture some other people, that makes sense.
Kiona 27:39
Yeah. To support and nurture other people into a more positive life,
Nicky 27:43
Yeah.
Kiona 27:43
I’m assuming.
Nicky 27:44
Yeah.
Kiona 27:44
Yeah.
Nicky 27:45
And there’s I mean, I meet a lot of people that feel like really connected to this need to have their genetic imprint on their own. Kids. And they’ll go to such great extents for that. And I think for me, that wasn’t that important. I mean, this is a story I tell Jack, and I’ll always tell him because I believe it with every ounce of my being, is that he was always meant to come to me. He’s mine. And he was meant to come to me. And his birth mom brought him to me. And that I was waiting for him and he was waiting for me. And we were meant to find each other. We were meant to connect. And I feel like he is my soul mate and he is from me. And he didn’t get birth out of my body. But there’s such a deep connection that is indescribable.
Kiona 28:33
Yeah, I have heard that from other Adoptive parents as well. And truly have that connection there was this video that I watched recently from a mother who had adopted and their child was five at the time, and she was just talking to her followers and saying, I can’t even fathom if this child came out of me if I could love them any more than I already love them. You know, I just feel like they are so, so much a part of me. And they were meant for me and I was meant for them. And we are soulmates, you know, They’re my best friend. Like I love them so dearly that I can’t even imagine what it would be like to love anybody any more than this.
Nicky 29:10
Yeah.
Kiona 29:11
So. I think that’s beautiful. It is truly beautiful. And to be able to grow your family in such a way with such love makes such a huge difference.
Nicky 29:21
I mean, I have asked other adoptive parents some of them have their own biological children and then they’ve adopted. And I’ve asked multiple people if they feel a difference in that connection between the ones that are biologically theirs and the ones that are adopted. And they don’t. And I think that’s really interesting and really beautiful.
Kiona 29:42
Yeah, I think it just goes to show that love and care and nurturing and being a family is something that is chosen every single day, you know, because people can make an assumption that, oh, you have to love them because they’re family. And that can be really toxic sometimes for people. But if you choose to love those that are around you and if you choose to embrace them and be there for them, then that’s that’s what’s needed. That’s why it’s possible for people to gain a chosen family when they’ve been disowned by their own right. They can love someone who is not biologically to them, like a best friend or some other person that’s not biologically related to them. They could love them more than someone who’s biologically related to them just because of that fact,
Nicky 30:30
Yeah.
Kiona 30:30
you know?
Nicky 30:31
Yeah.
Kiona 30:32
So it’s absolutely beautiful and amazing. I do want to ask, so Jack is your only did you know that you only wanted one or had you ever considered adopting another?
Nicky 30:42
No, Jack is amazing and he has some A.D.D. and some anxiety and he’s been a lot to manage sometimes. And so I feel like, yes, he’s been he’s been enough. And I’ve just poured so much into him and there’s not much left at the end of the day. I think for anyone anyone else, I think he needs all of our attention and. So I don’t even think we really considered another one ever. And I have to say, the adoption process is insane. Besides the financial commitment, it’s a lot of energy. The amount of hoops you have to jump through for adoption are incredible. you have to show them all your financials. You have to get letters of recommendation. You have to show proof of income and employment verification. We had to get background checked and fingerprinted and go through the child abuse index clearance. We had to take parenting classes. We had to get ridiculous amounts of forms notarized. and then we had to do that multiple times. I think I got fingerprinted probably six or seven times during the process. And there was just so, so much paperwork and so much proof that we had to show. And, you know, when you have a kid, you don’t take parenting classes. You have a kid like you don’t have to show that you can afford them and that you have a good job. And so there was a lot of paperwork to go through. And then there’s that waiting period that was so challenging. And it’s not uncommon for it to take two or three years. And so I think that was another reason why we were not willing to do that process again. It was just so stressful.
Kiona 32:26
Yeah. Have you ever connected with other adoptive parents who didn’t go through an agency like they did? Like a private adoption or anything like that?
Nicky 32:35
think you still have to get attorneys involved and you still have to do the same paperwork, like you have to get a home study. So that it’s crazy, I think. I don’t think you can get an adoption without a home study. And all of that information that I just shared is in the home study. So literally a social call. Come to your home. They’ll check out your home. They’ll make sure there’s food in the fridge. They’ll make sure the house isn’t like a tripping hazard. It’s crazy. And then all of those financial and employment and all of that goes into the home study. So I think even if you did a private adoption without going through an agency, you still have to get that paperwork done. I mean, another thing that we to do is that we were in California for the adoption and we were momentarily living in Alabama. And so you have to get permission to take your child across state lines. And so California has to send Alabama all the paperwork and Alabama has to approve it and send it back to California. And so, like, we couldn’t even just buy a ticket home like we had to wait and wait and wait. And it’s like, when are they getting approved? We’re in a hotel. We’re going to get documents notarized. We’re having to take him to a doctor in California. Within two weeks of his birth, we were stuck in California for three and a half weeks or something for this adoption. We can’t get back to Alabama because they haven’t cleared the paperwork. There’s nothing we can do to hurry the process along. We’re out of suitcases and living out, you know, and then it gets cleared and then all of a sudden, like, we can go back home and we can get on a plane. So just super complicated, like the legal process. I don’t think anybody can navigate that without an agency or an attorney. And then that’s another thing is it’s just not financially feasible for every family because it is expensive. and the range of what it can be is is super expensive. And it doesn’t matter if it’s international or domestic, it’s going to be expensive. I think international can potentially be even more because the same thing when you do international, you have to get permission to bring your child into the country so you could be stuck in another country for three weeks waiting for paperwork to clear to get back to your country.
Kiona 34:41
Yeah. And then also the first thing that pops into mind when you’re saying three weeks is you still had the possibility to have to bring Jack back if his birth mother decided to keep him.
Nicky 34:51
Yeah.
Kiona 34:52
Wow.
Nicky 34:53
Yeah.
Kiona 34:54
Adoption is not for the weak.
Nicky 34:55
It’s not it’s not easy. I mean, some people will give you a beautiful adoption story, but I would say 99% of the people that I know their story is similar to us. Like it’s complicated and it’s messy. It’s got layers to it. And there’s a long waits and it’s just a big emotional toll.
Kiona 35:13
Yeah. Well, let’s move into what it was like to start being a mother. How was it for you when you were taking care of Jack and doing all of the things with Jack? You and your husband were doing the thing.
Nicky 35:26
Yeah.
Kiona 35:26
What was it like for you?
Nicky 35:27
I mean, the interesting thing is that because we had to wait 30 days, there was a part of my heart that wasn’t completely open, that was holding back a little bit from Jack. I know with my mom and with my husband, like, they had just embraced him immediately. But for me, I was like waiting to breathe. And so that first 30 days, we were doing a lot of skin to skin. It’s a really important for bonding, especially with adoptive families, is that skin to skin contact. And I had him in a carrier all the time, like on my body, or we were doing a ton of skin to skin. But there was a part of me that was withholding and knowing that, but not really knowing how to navigate around that for myself but I think after the 30 days, then I could breathe and then everything just kind of fell into place. same as I think parents that birth out their kids. My husband, I never fight, never fight. And that first two, three months our kid was born, we were about to kill each other. Just like the lack of sleep and the amount of stress and everything. We were really struggling. But also we had support too. Like you did. And so that was really helpful. But. I think everything that a real birth mom goes through with the sleep deprivation and the you know, my body didn’t have to go through a big change, but all the other stuff was just a big shock to my system. And we didn’t have time to prep for it. Right. We didn’t have that nine months because it’s it’s literally like you get a phone call all of a sudden, boom, then there’s a baby in your hand and like you’re a mom. And so we had a room set up and we had, some things that were gender neutral that we had bought. And so we were somewhat prepared. But I mean, and you know, this just getting the car seat in the car and trying to figure out how to get that thing to go into the car securely was like a whole ordeal. And like trying to figure out the stroller and trying to figure out the whole feeding thing and like not knowing what we’re doing and having read all the books but still being clueless. I think we the the struggles are similar. But, you know, I didn’t have to my body didn’t have to go through a big transformation.
Kiona 37:36
Yeah. Yeah. And so speaking of feeding, what were your feeding choices? Because there are some adoptive parents that decide to induce lactation. Was that anything you wanted to try to do or were you just like, Oh, let’s just do formula because he needs to be fed?
Nicky 37:50
Yeah, I wanted to induce lactation, but it was complicated and I can’t remember. I did a lot of research on it and we ended up not doing it, although that would have been my preferred choice. We did ask the birth mom to pump the colostrum that first time, and that’s colostrum super important that first breastfeeding. And so we did get that for him because that’s so good for their immune system. then I had a friend who has a kids similar age and she was producing a bunch of extra milk and I trusted her as like a clean source. So I was getting some breast milk from her for a while. And then we had to move to Formula. It was not my choice to want to do that, but we moved to formula. We researched all the brands, went with like the most natural brand that didn’t have any of the chemicals in it, and he was experiencing like major constipation and it was not a good choice. And so we had to end up using Enfamil, which is like my last choice in the whole wide world. But his body was able to tolerate that a lot better. I mean, the one good thing about formula feeding over breastfeeding is that it sustains the babies a little bit longer, and so they’re able to take longer stretches without food. And so you get a little bit more sleep and a little bit more rest. but, yeah, I, I’m not a fan of formula, but that’s what we had to do.
Kiona 39:13
Yeah. And I mean, it sounds like you tried all the things
Nicky 39:15
Yeah.
Kiona 39:15
you know, you did all the things you got the pumped colostrum, which is so beautiful that you were able to obtain that because you are correct colostrum is extremely important for babies in the beginning, especially from their biological parent, because their biological parents lactation has been like specifically made for them and to help them, develop and grow or get all the nutrients they need right there immediately after birth. So that’s beautiful. I also love that you utilize donated milk. It makes me think of this app that I just partnered with, but also just truly love. It’s called Share the Drop and it is a milk donation app, so it’s kind of like a dating app for breast milk. And so you put all of these things in it and like you create your profile and you even can like filter the kinds of things that you do like, are you using prescription medication? Are you a smoker? Like, do you use alcohol Like all of this stuff you can put in your app? And I don’t know if it’s like based off trust or if you have to input like actual medical proof. But the thing that I truly enjoy about that app is you can put in the fact like, Oh, I need milk, These are the filtration that I need and you can put it in. And I did a test and there was someone five miles away from me who had milk that they could utilize so if people really wanted to take advantage of breast milk, that’s also another way to go. So.
Nicky 40:35
Yeah, I know that there’s like breast milk banks where you can buy it and it’s supposed to be insanely expensive. I was just really glad that I had my friend. She was down the street, too. She had so much access. And so we did use that for quite a while. I’m really happy that we had her.
Kiona 40:51
Yeah. So what would you say was your most challenging time during the first few months of Jack’s life from a parenting perspective?
Nicky 41:01
I think waiting that 30 days was the most challenging. I think having a baby and not being at home in my environment and having to like drive all over. Like any era in L.A. is just an ordeal. And so, you know, having to. Get paperwork signed in forms and documents. And then, after Jack was born in the birth, mom was home, like we needed to do a visit with them and spend time with them. So just this like 30 days waiting, to see if he was going to be able to stay with us. And then the lack of sleep. Just because you can’t think clearly, I think was the most challenging. I think everybody in my life really embraced him right away. Everyone knew that we’d been waiting for a really long time, and so they were really happy. And so there was a lot of love surrounding him. So it wasn’t necessarily hard. It’s just we didn’t know what we were doing as new parents.
Kiona 41:54
So tell me what it was like when you were finally at home and settled in. Was there any moment where you were like, We did it. We’re home and we’re a family?
Nicky 42:06
I think that honestly, the moment that stands out in my mind the most was when we were leaving the hospital more than when we were at home. And they had to put me in a wheelchair, which is kind of funny to take Jack out. They had to wheel me out as like a patient. And I remember my husband went to get the car. elevator was full of strangers. I’m not very, like, publicly display emotion and the elevator door shuts and I’ve got Jack in my arms and I just burst out crying. And it was this. like pain for the birth mom. And like, how incredibly difficult that must be for her. Like, almost like taking her baby from her and then just having him in my arms to myself because we spent a lot of time with the birth mom and shared Jack really well in the hospital. And that was really, really hard. And so that was that first moment where I had him alone in my arms and I’m like, Oh my gosh, Right. Like, the elevator shuts and then my whole body just and my nervous system just completely fell apart and relaxed and let go of like, all this stuff that I had been holding in.
Kiona 43:14
Oh, That sounds like a really powerful moment, actually,
Nicky 43:18
Mm.
Kiona 43:18
of. Oh, this is happening, you know. Yes, absolutely. Oh, my goodness. So Is there anything that we haven’t talked about yet that you want to talk about?
Nicky 43:30
You know, I don’t know. I think. adoption is definitely not for everybody. It’s not as easy as people think it is. complex and there’s a lot of literature around how
tends to have this
missing. Almost like this whole a little bit of a hole inside of them. And I think that there’s something really like a trauma that happens to the birth child before they’re verbal. That they can’t ever wrap their head around and they can’t ever understand. And so I think that’s just something that you need to expect and to be able to navigate around and just know that, like, that’s not something that I can control. But there is a trauma that happened before there verbal. That’s going to show up in different ways as they get older. And I think some kids grow up out of adoption and they really want to connect with their birth families and others don’t at all. I kind of have a feeling my my little boy doesn’t have a lot of interest in that. And so I think as the family, you have to do what’s best for the kid. And that might not be the easiest thing. Like if they’re wanting to go and search out their birth parent and that feels bad for you. You need to help them. You need to do what’s right for them. even if it’s uncomfortable. And I also think it’s really important with adoption to talk about it from from the minute that they’re born. We always say that we’re an adoptive family versus like he’s adopted. And so that’s more inclusive. Oh, you’re adopted, right? Then it’s like you’re separate from us. But if we’re an adoptive family, like, we’re all in it together. So I’ve been really careful about my language around that. And. I have a girlfriend that was adopted, and her and her brother were adopted from an Italian family. She’s got red hair and like, white skin. And everyone would say, Oh, are you adopted? Or her mom would say something about, Oh, you don’t look like your siblings. And her mom would say something about adoption and then she could see her mom’s body language change and her mom would get really uncomfortable. And kids pick up on that. Right. And so it’s finding a way to get really comfortable talking about it with strangers, with other people, so that your kids don’t pick up on any discomfort that you might have or work through that discomfort to get rid of it
Kiona 45:52
Right. And, with you talking so much about paying attention to the way that the kid feels throughout the adoption process, I’m actually really curious about you in particular, because with being in the motherly role, the primary parent role, How would you say that you handled the postpartum time like the immediate postpartum time mentally? would you say that you experience any postpartum depression at any point? And if so, what did that look like for you or any, different levels of emotions?
Nicky 46:23
Yeah, I don’t think so. I don’t think there was like a distinct period of depression. I think the first couple of months were just trying to, like, navigate out the sleeplessness peace of it and just being new. It felt really pretty comfortable. and I feel like we bonded really beautifully. So I don’t feel that I could relate to any postpartum at all.
Kiona 46:47
Good. That’s really good. I have three final closing questions that I ask all of my interviewees, The first one is what is one piece of advice that you would give to all adoptive parents to prepare for the adoption process and for bringing a baby home?
Nicky 47:01
I think it’s really important to dig down deep into what you’re okay with handling and what you’re not okay with. And so the adoption agencies will talk to you about race and gender and medical issues and psychological issues. And like, that was another thing that we weren’t open to is like a psych like a pretty intense psychiatric history with our with the birth parents knowing that again that that’s going to be underreported. But I think it’s really important to get clear. there is a little bit of pressure from the agencies sometimes if you’re like, I want healthy, And then they’re like, well, we’ll just sneak this and it’s not so bad, right? And you’re clear that you want a healthy kid. And so it is having really good boundaries about what you’re able and willing to take as a parent. And if you’re able to take on some of those other things, great. if you’re able to take on medically needy kids and you have the ability to do that and that’s beautiful. But just being really clear about what you can handle. And I think also from the day that they’re born, speaking about adoption and normalizing it for your family, for yourself, for your kid, I think it’s really important.
Kiona 48:07
Yeah, I think all of that sounds extremely important and makes total logical sense, to be honest, to include those things and be really considerate and to be truly honest about what it is that you’re willing to carry in the process.
Nicky 48:21
Yeah.
Kiona 48:22
So my second question is what is one resource that I can share with my listeners on your behalf?
Nicky 48:29
I would really reach out to like other adoptive families either on Facebook or something. I think, you know, if you go to an agency, sometimes they’ll have other families that you can connect with. But I think it’s really hard to find a really good agency sometimes. And so I think for me, I had a girlfriend that that I talked about before that was adopted, and I had met other people throughout the years that were adopted. And so really getting that perspective about what it’s like being adopted and growing up in that kind of situation and then being an adoptive family. And so maybe reaching out on Facebook or networking and trying to find community around that so that you really making an informed decision. Reading some books about adoption. I think that would be the best advice is just talking to people.
Kiona 49:19
Yeah, I think that’s great advice and I think it makes the most sense because you know how people always say ask advice from people that have been to where you want to go? It’s the same, logic there. So I think that’s great. Now, my final question to you is, if you could describe the entire adoption experience for you and your family with one word, what would it be?
Nicky 49:41
Intense.
Kiona 49:43
Great. Yeah. I think by the time everybody gets to this point in the episode, they would agree with that.
Nicky 49:48
Yeah. And beautiful, but yeah, super intense.
Kiona 49:52
Yes. Super duper intense. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my goodness. Well, Nicky, before I let you go, I actually want you to give the listeners a little bit more of an idea about what you do for your podcast, because you are also a podcast host.
Nicky 50:06
Thank you. I have a podcast that’s called the Connected Community Exploring Possibility. It’s all about mindfulness, movement, self-discovery. There’s a lot of things about spirituality and meditation, plant medicine, things like that. I also teach yoga online, so that’s. Nicky Why yoga dot com so it’s
NICKYYYOGA. com. But my podcast I love it and I feel like what I intend to do and every podcast is go ten layers deeper on every single topic. And so I bring on beautiful guests like you do and interview them and, just share that wisdom that they have with the world.
Kiona 50:44
I love that. I love that so much. So all of you listening now, go check out Nicky’s podcast as well. And Nicky, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
Nicky 50:54
Yeah. Thank you for having me. It’s fun to talk to you.
Kiona 50:57
Yes, absolutely.
Outro 51:10
Hey, you’re back. Thank you for sticking around. Isn’t this episode so interesting being able to hear how Nicky describes the process of adoption? I had no idea that it could take anywhere from 2 to 3 years to to even have a baby placed with you as an adoptive parent. That is so extremely emotionally challenging. And Nicky said so herself Nicky, I want to say thank you so much for sharing your story with us. And I am so grateful that the birth as we know it podcast listeners got to learn something new today. As for you listeners, if you want to hear another adoptive parent story, you can listen to episode 73 with Lindsey Bruggeman. She talks about the adoption process of her two boys and under two years. And if you want to join the Birth As We Know It podcast Community on Facebook, you can go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/community And last but not least, if you want to see the amazing family photo that Nikki sent me as well as read the show notes for this episode. You can go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/79.
All right. I look forward to talking with you again soon. Bye for now.
Do you have a birth story or experience you would like to share on the podcast?
Fill out the Guest Request Form below to put in your inquiry! I would love to hear from you!
