Description: Amanda dives deep into her true emotions about finding out she was pregnant so quickly after intentionally trying, and how that impacted her pregnancy and postpartum time with her first daughter, Aila. She also talks about how different each of her births unfolded because of how she prepared ahead of time. Furthermore, she dives into how being an active birth doula while pregnant and needing to birth during the height of COVID impacted her pregnancy care and birth choices and overall experience with her third child, Haiden.
birthasweknowitpodcast.com/85
Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only, with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.
Want to hear another birth story from a birth worker who is also a mother of three? Check out 58-Kayla Tschumper-3 Vaginal Births-Kennedy, Claire & Emelia-My Birth Choices
Resources:
- Amanda Clarke-Ray (Birth Doula) : https://amandaclarke-raydoula.com/
- Katie Rohs (Birth Doula) : https://katierohs.com/
- Catherine Fenner, IBCLC: http://nurturenewlife.com/about-seattle-ibclc/
- Perinatal Support of Washington: https://perinatalsupport.org/
- Postpartum Support International: https://www.postpartum.net
- Bucal, Lip & Tongue Tie Info: https://www.firstfoodforbaby.com/tongue-lip–buccal-ties.html
Definitions:
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Transcription of Episode 85:
Intro 0:08
Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I’ve realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you’re ready. With that said, let’s prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space.
Disclaimer 1:06
As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should directed to your licensed provider.
Kiona 1:27
Before we dive into this episode today, I have an exciting
announcement. Your girl, Kiona Nessenbaum, is back in the birth space as a birth doula. So if you are local to the greater Seattle area and in need of some birth doula support, please reach out. I would love to support you as you transition into parenthood. To learn more about this service, you can go birth as we know at podcast.com forward slash doula. Another service that I’m offering is called labor prep from a doula perspective. Now this can be done virtually or in person. So it’s also available to those that are not local to the greater Seattle area. What this is, is a two hour info session where you and I connect and talk about the best ways to prep for your labor and to inform you of what your options are. We also touch on how you can cope throughout labor, how partners can support you as you are laboring, and we touch on postpartum. So if you want to learn more about this service, go to
birthasweknowitpodcast.com forward slash labor prep. All right, let’s dive into this episode.
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. I am very excited to have on a fellow birth worker today. Her name is Amanda Clarke-Ray, and she is here to tell the three birth stories of her Her first kiddo is Aila, her second is Norah, and her third is Haiden. So Amanda, thank you so much for coming on. Welcome.
Amanda 2:55
Yes, thank you. I’m so excited.
Kiona 2:56
Yes, I’m excited to dive in. I say this at the beginning of every episode, but I am truly excited to dive into your experience. Because every story is different. And you have three very different stories to tell us, actually.
Amanda 3:10
Yes, all positive, but very different stories.
Kiona 3:14
Right? Yes. So let’s start at the very beginning. Let’s talk about conception. When did you decide or did you decide to conceive Aila?
Amanda 3:24
Yes. Yeah. So technically, yes. did decide to conceive her when we did. I think what was kind of surprising was how quickly it In my mind, it was going to take longer. My husband’s almost seven years older than me, so he was very ready. And when we decided to pull the goalie, I was like, okay, I have some time to process this. I feel lucky to say that it did happen within the first month of trying.
But that took me by surprise how I reacted to So I remember clearly the night that I took the test. And he was off, I think, with his buddies, and I took it. And I was really sad that I didn’t get this wave of excitement. I instantly, I mean, I burst into tears.
And it was hard. I did not excited. I felt really scared. And I just kept thinking about more of the negative sides of how my life was about to change,
Kiona 4:26
Hmm.
Amanda 4:26
even though, obviously, we had planned on trying. So it was a very weird feeling to have in that I remember calling him and saying, I need you to come home right now. And he didn’t know what was going on, because I didn’t want to tell him I was pregnant over the phone. And so he he came home. And I said, I’m pregnant, and again, burst into tears. And so he was having to manage being really excited. While I was pretty upset. And it felt really bad. It just, you want to let that person have that moment. And so I was trying not to always show too much how I was really having a hard time processing, so that he could also be excited for what was And later on, I kind of was able to process more that what I had feeling throughout my whole pregnancy. And then even after I had my daughter was depression, but like prenatal depression, which I had never heard of before. And so I always thought, oh, it’s so happy and rainbows and butterflies when you find out you’re pregnant, everyone’s always excited. And so I didn’t tell anyone how I was feeling. I felt so much guilt the whole time. And I think that also probably had an impact on after I had her too, and just kind of my mental health afterward. But yeah, that’s the conception side of
Kiona 5:55
Yeah, yeah. First off, I want to say thank you for being honest with that experience. Because there is always put out on social media most time when people find out, they’re super excited.
Amanda 6:06
Yeah.
Kiona 6:06
But there’s also the opposite reaction of being like, oh my god, this is happening. And I’m scared. I’m sad. I didn’t want this
Amanda 6:12
Yes.
Kiona 6:13
yet. But it’s here now. And like, we’re doing this, but also, uh, you know,
Amanda 6:17
yeah, yeah. And I think it was one of the biggest pieces that I kept going back to. We had only been we’d been married for a year. And I had finished grad school and all these things and focused on all that. And then we got pregnant right away. And so I almost was feeling like we didn’t have just time to relax. A couple and for me to just kind of be newly married and kept going to well, how is this going to change our relationship? It’s not going to be just the two of us. And our friendship, it’s going to be adding in someone else. And how’s that going to impact me and who I am as a person? So I think it was that fear of just a really big change after having a few other changes
Kiona 7:04
Right.
Amanda 7:04
really recently in my life, too.
Kiona 7:06
Yeah, That is so valid. And I know that some of the listeners that hear this are going to be able to relate to that so strongly, because it’s the biggest life transition. I one of the biggest. Obviously, there’s many out there. But this life transition of knowing you’re bringing another human into this world and your identity changes completely.
Amanda 7:27
Yes.
Kiona 7:28
So to know that ahead of time, the moment that you find out you’re pregnant, you’re like, God, what is this going to look like for us?
Amanda 7:33
The unknown. That’s that
Kiona 7:34
Yes.
Amanda 7:34
scary piece.
Kiona 7:35
It’s the scariest piece of the entire of life. It’s
Amanda 7:39
Yes.
Kiona 7:40
scary. Yeah. Let’s dive into what your pregnancy was like with Aila. Did you experience really intense symptoms at all? And was your depression kind of there throughout your entire pregnancy as well?
Amanda 7:51
Yes. So I was nauseated from about six weeks until I think with her it was 17 weeks, not throwing up, so not extreme, but just this all day long nausea. I’d have to wake up in the morning and my go to was a spoonful of peanut butter. Or I would even get out of bed to just try and manage. And at the time I was also working outside the home as I worked with individuals with autism, both teens and children. And so I would be very busy all day long attempting not to throw up when we were on outings and during my sessions with kids. So that part was really tricky. I also I didn’t have any food cravings or anything. But before I was pregnant, one of my favorite, you know, go to foods, we love Indian food and our office would often get that for our staff lunches. And I would have to leave during our staff lunches because the smell of just the spices would really turn my stomach, which was unfortunate because I missed that. those are kind of the big ones early on. And then I also, as I progressed, had some pretty bad sciatica to the point of not being able to really work out. And also, I remember at night, sometimes my husband would have to help me physically roll over to my other side because I was in so much pain, I couldn’t roll over myself.
And I did have just that kind of waves, I’ll say, of the depression throughout, you know, there’d be times where I’d be out with my mom and we’d be getting some fun baby stuff to prep. But then I would be at night thinking again about, wow, there’s a baby coming soon. And just, you know, there might be some negative thoughts, kind of at night specifically, has always been kind of that rougher time, as it is for a lot of people.
Kiona 9:44
Right. Yeah.
Amanda 9:45
Yeah.
Kiona 9:45
I feel like at night is when people feel the most alone and isolated.
Amanda 9:50
Yes.
Kiona 9:51
Because everybody, everything’s quiet and everyone around.
Amanda 9:53
Yes.
Kiona 9:54
You’re going to sleep or there’s someone else awake with you, but, you know, you feel very, very, very alone. So, yeah, that is so valid and true that the ups and downs, especially throughout pregnancy, of the emotion of, like, wanting to be excited and be baby’s arrival and then doing all the prep and getting excited. And then when you’re in your own thoughts, it’s hard to keep those negative things away sometimes.
Amanda 10:18
Yeah. And I think it’s also hard to keep them away family, too, or people who expect you to be acting a certain way. Right.
Kiona 10:28
Right.
Amanda 10:28
And so could be pretty honest with my husband. But like I said, I was trying to limit that so that he could actually enjoy this build up to our first baby. But being able to express that to my family just didn’t feel it just didn’t feel right. I mean, I’m the oldest of three girls and none of my siblings hadn’t had children yet. And I don’t feel like my mom ever experienced that. I know she was always very excited whenever she got pregnant. And so I just I had no one around me that I felt like I could be and none of my girlfriends at that point had any. So I just didn’t feel like I could be completely honest, let alone didn’t want to scare anyone away from having their own own children in the future, too.
Kiona 11:15
Right. kind paving the way for those that have not yet had the opportunity to have children of their own and to have them look at you and say, oh, yeah. You see, she’s happy like this is something we should do. And I think it is so true that so many people, if not everyone, are kind of expected to just be happy that there’s a baby. A baby’s coming. You should be so happy.
Amanda 11:40
yeah. Especially if it’s planned. Right.
Kiona 11:42
Right. Especially
Amanda 11:43
if
Kiona 11:43
it’s planned. Yeah. And even when it’s not planned, you know, everybody knows. To make a baby. but it doesn’t mean that everybody wants a baby right now. There’s planning of it and then having it happen sooner than expected.
Amanda 11:56
Mm hmm.
Kiona 11:56
Usually it takes people would assume that it takes a few months to get But truly the saying is, it only takes once is.
Amanda 12:04
Yeah.
Kiona 12:05
Very true. It’s very cliche, but it’s true. It only takes once, you know.
Amanda 12:09
Yes. Yeah.
Kiona 12:10
so throughout your pregnancy, did you do any childbirth education classes or was there anything specific that you did to prepare
Amanda 12:18
I had a doula very, very early on because my doula, Katie Rose, who’s local to the Seattle area,
Kiona 12:26
Love
Amanda 12:26
she
Kiona 12:26
Katie.
Amanda 12:26
and I had a long standing a personal relationship with me being her kid’s nanny and other parts to that too. And so right when I found out I was pregnant, I think she was probably the second person I told and she helped me figure out, you know, some doctor suggestions because that was something else too is because no one around me had babies already. And my only experience was hospital birth, just, you know, that’s where my mom had babies and that seems to be what people around the area were doing. And so I knew which hospital was closest to us, I had no idea which provider to go with. So I asked her opinion and she told me a couple from that specific hospital that she recommended. And then we also ended up taking childbirth education classes from her later to, which was really fun. My husband, you know, and I really liked being able to take them because she’s such a great instructor. But of course, he loves to razz her a lot too. So
Kiona 13:30
Yeah.
Amanda 13:30
it was just a fun experience in general.
Kiona 13:32
That’s awesome. And I love that. So I also know Katie and Katie is amazing.
Amanda 13:37
Yes.
Kiona 13:38
She is so, so, so amazing. And she is an amazing childbirth educator. just the way that she instructs her classes, it’s very well-rounded and she’s very much there and meeting each of the people that are attending where they’re at. And it’s great. So shout out to
Amanda 13:53
Yes.
Kiona 13:53
Katie. You’re amazing.
Amanda 13:54
Yeah.
Kiona 13:55
And I love that you guys were such close friends and that you had that direct connection and resource when you had questions.
Amanda 14:04
Yes. Yeah. And someone I had such a deep connection with who I trusted completely, right? I didn’t even know where to begin. And so having that person to go to for not just myself, but also husband Erich, I mean, he knew her so well too. And so it was a really big support for him going into this experience.
Kiona 14:25
Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that she knew you so well, she got to She didn’t already know your husband, Erich, very well.
Amanda 14:32
Oh, yeah.
Kiona 14:33
Then it’s just like in your birth space, she’s your doula. So she’s with you at that time.
Amanda 14:37
Yeah.
Kiona 14:38
let’s go ahead and dive into your birth with Aila. How was that?
Amanda 14:42
Yes. Yeah. So my husband likes to say that him and Katie knew I was in denial for quite a while.
They were chatting via text a lot throughout the day while I was still let’s go pick out nursing bras. I’m good. Nothing’s happening. But it all started. I don’t know looking back at this now as a doula why I didn’t think I was in labor because I woke up I think it was maybe 5am and I went the bathroom and on my way back from the bathroom, I felt a trickle down my leg. And I thought, okay, I don’t know. Whatever. I’m gonna go back to bed. I was a little bit crampy throughout the morning and woke up, decided to cancel plans with my mom that day and told husband, let’s go get nursing bras and just went out and ran some errands. And we tried to come home and I was attempting to take a nap. But it was a lot of that kind of initial menstrual like cramping on and off. But I still wasn’t really fully believing or didn’t want to believe things were truly happening.
And I think it was almost 6pm, we said, let’s go get sandwiches and go on a walk on one of the trails nearby. So we got sandwiches and we were walking on a trail. And I remember that’s when it really hit because that’s I had a couple very strong contractions where we had to pause and I was hanging on him like that slow dancing position and deep breathing. And I just remember out of the corner of my eye seeing this group of older people walk by and was super embarrassed that they were seeing me in this position. So I said, let’s go home. I don’t want to, I don’t want to be out in public anymore. And so we went home, and I was just trying to do things on the birth ball, and was starting to feel like things were ramping up a lot. And that’s when my husband called the hospital for me. And they weren’t thrilled that we hadn’t called when my water broke back at 5am, because this was now probably 7pm. But I was no longer in denial at that point.
Kiona 16:55
Right.
one, I will say, when people, especially the first time around, and subsequent, actually, when people are in denial, I think there’s real strong reason for that. You know,
Amanda 17:08
Yeah.
Kiona 17:09
just like you were saying, not really wanting it to be happening right now. But also, You’ve never done it before. And. it’s really, really uncomfortable near the end of pregnancy. And so you’re just so used to coping with discomfort. And you try all the things. And when it doesn’t resolve, you’re like, okay, fine. I guess I’m just going to be uncomfortable. And that discomfort isn’t always labor.
Amanda 17:29
No. Definitely not. there were so many signs throughout the day, too. I mean, I think I, at one point, even lost my mucus plug in the toilet and showed my husband. And he’s over here texting with Katie going, okay, she still doesn’t think something’s happening. But I just want you to know,
Kiona 17:45
Right.
Amanda 17:45
this is what’s happening.
Kiona 17:48
Man, he’s good. He was on top of it. Good
Amanda 17:51
Yeah.
Kiona 17:51
job, Erich. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So, as you are getting further into your labor, like, at that point when you said, I want to go home, and then you called the hospital, what happened next?
Amanda 18:04
So, they asked us to come in because they did want to check me and obviously make sure that my water was broken and all of that. And we also were not timing contractions at this whole time. So, I was just going off based how I was coping and how I was feeling and just kind of like the strength of them in general, but. we got there and we were brought into triage and I remember them checking me. I don’t know how far along I was at that time, but I was admitted. So, things were moving along really well. I was brought into one of the birth rooms and the labor and delivery rooms and just kind of did my thing for a while. I’m someone when I labor, there’s a couple things. always say my love language is physical affection. Just touch and all of that. And so, when I labor, I have to have my husband right next to me. I like to, he doesn’t even necessarily have to be helping me through any positions or anything like that. I just like to be able to either hug him or be able to have his hand on my shoulder or anything like that. And so, I remember just us kind of being around the bed for a little bit, me trying to cope, feeling a ton of pressure pretty shortly after we were brought into labor and delivery. And hope was to go unmedicated. I wanted to try the tub. The hospital I was at, their tubs were not the best. They weren’t super deep. So, I remember being in the tub for a short while. And one of the nurses was so wonderful. She tried to do some different pressure points on my forehead to, you know, distract or anything like that. And… We were maybe in there for about an, and this is kind of a blur at this point, because it’s now nine years ago, but I don’t feel like we were in there more than a couple hours. And I remember laying in the tub and saying, I don’t feel like this is me coping anymore. I think I’m reaching the point of suffering, which we had talked about in prenatals with Katie, you know, that line between pain is normal, pain is expected, right? If you can cope through that, that’s okay. It’s more of that mental part of it when you get to the suffering, feeling out of control and stressed and all of that. And I said to the nurse, this is leading to suffering now. And so I made the decision at that point to request an epidural. I just have this clear image in my head. before having babies was a kind of reserved shy person who I never really wore like really low cut shirts. I was kind of like, uncomfortable in my own skin to do so. And I just laugh now thinking back to that first birth. And how at some point in labor, almost everyone just gets buck naked. I don’t care who comes in that room. And I remember the anesthesiologist and he was, it was a male too. I’m just buck naked on the bed. Don’t give a crap whatsoever. And I’m just like, get the job done.
Kiona 21:04
yup.
Amanda 21:05
I’m over this. And so I had the epidural placed. And my kind of next memory is trying to get some rest, but I had a window of pain right on my hip bone. And so we tried, we thought that maybe Aila was malpositioned, and just pressing kind of in that spot too. And so we got in like an exaggerated position, almost laying on my stomach just to try and get her to rotate and see if we can get more coverage in that, that space. when I got the epidural, they had checked me too afterward. And I was, I think between seven to eight centimeters. So I knew it wasn’t going to be much longer after So I wasn’t going to get a lot of rest. Rewind, I’ve kind of forget another piece to my birth too. I’m a puker. And so part of what was reaching that suffering point was not only was I having intense pressure that I was feeling scared about, right? Not, not quite understanding, um, and not being able to let go, but I puked a ton. Which was just miserable. yeah, that’s, that’s something I, I’ve brought into all three of my births, which is just lovely.
after maybe only resting for an hour or so, I remember it being time to push and I know that I pushed for less than an hour. I can’t anything else beyond that. but I do remember, and there’s some pictures too, and I look back on it and it kind of makes me a little sad. Um, Sorry.
Kiona 22:43
it’s okay.
Amanda 22:43
Um, my goal was to not cry.
Kiona 22:48
That’s okay.
Amanda 22:49
Um, not having that joy I had hoped for
when she first came out.
I thought, okay, I had a hard time while pregnant. Maybe I’ll finally find that joy when she’s placed on me.
Um,
and I just felt numb.
Kiona 23:18
Um,
Amanda 23:18
and you see it. You see it in pictures.
Um, and I hate that. You know, I don’t, I don’t want to, I hate looking back on those pictures and seeing like this fake smile, like this fake half smile on my face. And yeah, I was exhausted. But I know what I felt in that moment. And it was, oh, where is this? Oh, this baby’s place. You’re instantly just so in love and excited and happy. And I didn’t have that. And I was so upset that I didn’t finally feel that way, you know, after nine months of kind of struggling to feel that.
And so that was upsetting, obviously. but again, it was all about like, fake it till you make it. Right. Be joyful. because you want your partner to have that moment. And, oh my gosh, like he looks so happy in those pictures.
Kiona 24:25
Hmm.
Amanda 24:26
Like, I love looking at him, right, in those pictures, because that’s not taken away. This big old smile of first-time dad, and I mean, that’s still one of my favorite things in births, is not only watching my client, but watching their partner, if they have one at the birth and, just seeing their faces, too. so, you know, I have that from our moment. And it did come. It did come. But it took time, which.
one more thing, right, that not everyone talks when you are pregnant or having a baby is, it can take time to fall in love, and that’s okay, too. it’s okay to have disappointment around all of that. And so, I definitely remember feeling like I was kind of in a fog directly after having her. And it took a bit of time for me to get out of that in that postpartum period. But I was able to have her skin-to-skin for a while. Like, she was a very healthy baby. She was, I think, seven pounds, 14 ounces. I think 20 inches long or something like that. Juicy very, very healthy baby.
And our stay in the hospital was fine. Nothing especially going on other than just learning how to care for this little one. I needed a lot of breastfeeding support with her. Like, right from the get-go. The nurses were kind of thinking I didn’t have inverted nipples, but they were flatter. And so I was right away experiencing a lot of pain and just when I would eventually get her latched, it was hurting so much. And before I even left the hospital, I already had cracked, bleeding nipples. I remember this one nurse would come in and she wouldn’t teach me at all. She would just, without permission even, which just drives me nuts, but she would just grab my breast and shove Aila on there. And then leave. But then I would never be able to replicate this. And so after a while, they then said, okay, let’s just try a nipple shield. So I was able eventually get her latched with a nipple shield and we went home with that. And I don’t really know why. I never kind of sought extra support to wean her off of that or didn’t have a lot knowledge around attempting to do so. But I breastfed her with a nipple shield for 11 and a half I hated it. It was such a pain. I was so grateful that it got us to have a breastfeeding relationship. But it was also so challenging because if I was out in public and I, at that time, felt like I wanted to be covered, you know, I’m having a hard time keeping the cover over me while trying to not have her bunk this nipple shield off. And was really challenging. But we made it work for those 11 and a half months. And then she kind of self-weaned at that point.
Kiona 27:19
Wow. That is a journey for sure. And I want to touch on your immediate postpartum feelings and emotions.
Amanda 27:26
Yeah.
Kiona 27:27
Thank you for sharing that. Because
Amanda 27:28
yeah
Kiona 27:30
Many people, even on this podcast, have had that moment, of where they’re not overwhelmed with excitement and getting that wave of oxytocin that everybody talks about.
Amanda 27:40
Mmhmm
Kiona 27:40
They say, this is so amazing. It is amazing when it happens. And also, when it doesn’t happen, I feel like it’s important to realize that that is also very common and a normal occurance to have the. Kind of disconnect of your body just went through a tremendous feat. And I’m not talking about labor in general. I’m talking about the creation of life, bringing this human, growing this human in your body, having it not be yours anymore. And then going through this amazing but also incredibly challenging labor process that turn into something that you didn’t expect it to turn into. It could end up in a cesarean for some or an epidural for some or a really traumatic vaginal birth for some, right? Or a really
Amanda 28:28
Mmhmm
Kiona 28:28
happy moment for some.
It’s such a drastic shift. Like it can be beautiful, but it could also be like, wait, I just need a minute I
Amanda 28:37
Yeah.
Kiona 28:38
just need to ground and see that this is my life now. Like what I just went through is insane. And also to feel that pressure of needing that immediate connection is really challenging.
Amanda 28:53
Yes.
Kiona 28:54
Really, really, really challenging. Now, when it comes to your postpartum feeding challenges, yes, have since having my children of my own, and have encouraged clients of mine as well to do some nipple homework before they have a baby.
Amanda 29:12
Yes. Oh, 100%.
Kiona 29:16
Yeah, because everybody assumes that their nipples will just work and it’ll be great and everything’s going to be fine. It’s natural to have a baby. Bre is a natural thing. And
Amanda 29:23
yeah.
Kiona 29:24
But breastfeeding is incredibly challenging. some people do have like flatter nipples or inverted nipples. And you know, I’m the complete opposite of that where I have huge nipples that struggled to fit into my baby’s mouth. So. It’s
Amanda 29:37
Yes.
Kiona 29:38
important for listeners to realize just as diverse as people are is just as diverse as nipples are because sometimes they work and sometimes they don’t.
Amanda 29:48
Mm-hmm.
Kiona 29:48
And be gentle on yourself and definitely do prenatal homework if you can with.
Amanda 29:53
Yeah.
Kiona 29:54
Visiting a lactation consultant or a lactation peer counselor to encourage you to just get a little bit more information if.
Amanda 30:00
Mm-hmm.
Kiona 30:01
Breastfeeding or body feeding is the way that you’re hoping to go.
Amanda 30:04
Yeah.
Kiona 30:05
thank you sharing with us the struggles that you had with your breastfeeding. And it’s interesting to me because the feeling that I got when you said that you used the nipple shield for 11 and a half months. I was like, wow, I never. I never connected that some people would do that because I’m
Amanda 30:21
Yeah.
Kiona 30:21
so.
To having people just naturally stop because they don’t want to deal.
Amanda 30:26
Mm-hmm.
Kiona 30:27
But what that tells me, Amanda, is that you are so incredibly determined to feed your baby that you just kept doing what worked.
Amanda 30:36
Yeah.
Kiona 30:36
You know?
Amanda 30:37
Yeah.
Kiona 30:38
And I love that. That shows determination. That’s great.
Amanda 30:42
Yes.
Kiona 30:42
So.
Amanda 30:42
Yeah.
Kiona 30:43
Good job there. And congrats on making it to 11 and a half months.
Amanda 30:46
Thank you.
Kiona 30:47
Mm-hmm.
Amanda 30:48
I’ll be able to go into it more with my other two births. But I have a sneaking suspicion that she had a tongue tie, too, that was never diagnosed. Just thinking about my other two kiddos were and then just how torn up my nipples were initially. and I myself found out that I have a pretty significant tongue tie. That was never corrected. So the nipple shield made it work. Made it work for us. I think that with my first, I had a general goal of, A, just wanting to breastfeed in general. But also. Hoping to get to that first year. and so, you know, we pretty much did it. I felt like the reason she was weaning is I had noticed my letdown wasn’t happening as quickly, uh, anymore as she was getting older. And I could tell she was getting frustrated. And she’d just be kind of sitting on the breast. And then, of course, my thoughts were going, oh, no, my milk hasn’t let down, which is then you’ve got the stress hormones and all of that. And it was just spiraling. I think wonderful. The fact that we even made it to 11 and a half months was incredible, especially with just kind of that rocky start and everything, too. So I was pretty, pretty proud of us.
Kiona 32:01
Yeah, absolutely. That totally deserves a medal
Amanda 32:05
Yeah.
Kiona 32:05
because it’s, it takes effort. It definitely takes effort. Yeah. a question that I just thought of is, did you at any point throughout that 11 and a half months try to have a breastfeeding session without a nipple shield?
Amanda 32:19
So I did meet kind of early on with one lactation consultant who came out and she showed me how to attempt to wean my daughter But whenever I would try to replicate that afterward without her there, i was so stressful for me and I just wasn’t having success that I felt, if I can get this to work with a nipple shield, I’m just going to continue because just was not the work I wanted to put into at that time. I was dealing with postpartum depression, right? I had other things that were kind of priorities to me and was making it work between that and I was also pumping. so we would do that and with doing a paste bottle feeding. we tried, but not like maybe a big, big try.
Kiona 33:08
Yeah, no, I would say it was a big, big try. Right. And you found out this is not where my priorities lie
Amanda 33:15
Yeah.
Kiona 33:15
and that’s okay.
Amanda 33:15
Yeah.
Kiona 33:16
Yeah, totally. Yeah. That’s so awesome that you were able to actually just draw your line and be like, yeah, this works for us. So we’re just going to keep going with it.
Amanda 33:25
Yeah.
Kiona 33:25
Yeah. Yeah, that’s fair.
Now, you did just touch on your postpartum depression a little bit. Let’s talk about how that impacted your postpartum time.
Amanda 33:36
Yes. I think it just carried on. It wasn’t something that showed up right after a few weeks or I think it just kind of carried over from pregnancy and then into the postpartum side. I remember specifically those first three months, I was still in that fog. My husband took two weeks off initially, but was also up his bachelor’s degree. And so there were a couple times within that first two weeks, he even had to go to class. And then after two weeks, he went back to work. And my most vivid memory is battling her for three hours plus every day, because in my head, it was, I have to get this child to sleep on her own in this crib or in this bassinet and had these very specific thoughts about how that had to look right where I could have knowing now I’m like, I should have just done contact naps and I would have been so much happier But then every day around 4pm or so was when I kind of hit that wall and. even though I knew my husband would be home, you know, 530 or so, I was already pacing near the windows, crying or just holding her looking out the window feeling so incredibly lonely. And it just felt like
work, just work for me those first three months. And it was when I was going back to work after the first three months that I felt like I was finally coming out of that fog a bit and starting to enjoy having a baby. And she was, just turning four months. I think it’s such a fun kind of transition kind of transition that age. so I was getting a little bit, better. But then I went back to work. And so at that time, of course, I was still working outside the home. was gone from morning until sometimes I get home at 630, or close to her bedtime. And so I felt like I just had maybe an hour with her, which was in itself a huge challenge too, but the depression itself, I feel was kind of lessening, as that four months plus went on, and then I enjoyed it quite a bit.
Kiona 35:54
So do you think that going to work helped you because you one got out of the house, and then to interacted with adults
Amanda 36:01
Yes. So I find a lot of joy being home with my kids, but I also am someone who needs to work outside the home being able to still have me, Amanda, as a separate individual, helps me mentally. So being able to go and be with my coworkers and at that time, have a job that I felt very passionate about, was a balance that I needed, along with then having a baby who was, for me personally, becoming more enjoyable too. So those both hit around the same time. And I think that is part of the reason I started to come out of that kind of depression a bit too.
Kiona 36:43
That’s so beautiful. I love that it is apparent that there was a moment of things lightened, Even though it may not have completely gone away, there was like kind of a breath of fresh air a little bit to say, okay. I’m, I’m okay, but we can do this,
Amanda 36:59
Yes.
Kiona 37:00
Yeah. Beautiful. So, know, a couple of years go by and you decide, hey, we’re going to have another baby or?
Amanda 37:10
Yes.
Kiona 37:11
Was she planned? Was Norah planned?
Amanda 37:13
Yes. So, Norah was planned. And Aila, I believe, w 15 months old, if I remember correctly, when we tried. And again, it happened the first, the first month. But this time, I was excited. I had a completely different experience. I getting Aila a little shirt that said something about Big Sister, and I put it on her when I knew Erich was coming home from work. And, you know, he comes up the stairs, and he saw the Big Sister shirt and does that, what? What? Oh, my gosh, you know? So, everyone being And so, very, very different. I had been through it, right? I’d been through the thick of it. I saw that while, yes, it was really, really challenging. And I did lose myself a bit, right? I think the, the old self obviously changes, but there was something just so different feeling around the second pregnancy. I was so much more excited to experience all of it. And then to also have Aila have a sibling. And I think part of that, too, is having my own two sisters and loving that relationship that we have.
Kiona 38:25
Yeah, I love that. I love that you were able to experience that happiness and joy. Excitement around, oh, another baby, you
Amanda 38:33
Yeah.
Kiona 38:33
know? And one thing is, by this point, you know that you’re a great mom. And you
Amanda 38:38
Yeah.
Kiona 38:38
know that you can do the damn thing. And then you’re at it again. So, that’s beautiful. That’s beautiful.
Amanda 38:44
Yeah.
Kiona 38:45
So, how was Norah’s pregnancy? Did you still experience depression throughout her pregnancy?
Amanda 38:50
No. So, I, I don’t, I don’t think I had any depression or anything during my pregnancy with her. It was very similar to Aila’s though, when it came to right around six, seven weeks, I started feeling nauseated all day. And with her, I think that nausea ended at 20 weeks. So, it was even a little bit longer. Still not necessarily throwing up, just constantly feeling sick. I also got really bad sciatica with her. I remember trying to continue running during that pregnancy and could barely walk after some of my runs. that was very, very challenging, but. those were the only things with myself. I do recall at our 20-week ultrasound, having a little bit of a kind of a scare about her. They had seen something on the ultrasound where they wanted us to go in and work with maternal fetal medicine and do a 3D ultrasound and just more extensive
check. And she had a two-vessel cord and something with her, like, I think it was a valve with her heart and also something with her kidney that they wanted to watch. And of course, with the two-vessel cord, that meant they wanted to make sure her growth was okay throughout the rest of our, our pregnancy too. But the heart and kidney. issue corrected itself as they had told us it most likely would , but. know, anytime you hear, oh, we need you to go get more checks. And oh, this is coming Everyone does this. But I also especially tend to snowball my thoughts sometimes. And that was really scary for a little while. But I believe we had one extra ultrasound toward the end, if I recall, and she was looking fine.
Kiona 40:39
Beautiful, beautiful. did you also do any childbirth prep with Norah’s pregnancy or were you just like, we got it. We’ve done it before.
Amanda 40:47
We didn’t do any just because, it hadn’t been a really long time since our last pregnancy and birth, but we still wanted to use Kaite and so we decided to have Katie at this birth too, along with one of my best friends is an ICU nurse. And we chose to have her at birth, for just added moral support. I had it in my head that she was also another medical person who loved me and.
Kiona 41:14
Right. Yeah.
Amanda 41:15
Would be a really good support person in that hospital space. So we also with the same hospital and doctor too.
Kiona 41:21
Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Your birth team was there and rocking it. That’s great. let’s talk about Norah’s How was it different from Aila’s?
Amanda 41:31
Yeah. Well, she never wanted to come out. She’s mama’s girl. We joke that she would still be in my tummy if she could. she was overdue and my provider, wanted to induce at 41 weeks and we were okay doing so. So we were induced at 41 plus and it was a very quick induction I remember we brought my oldest Aila to my mom’s the night before and went into the hospital in the morning or the day before actually, we were supposed to possibly have a Foley balloon placed and then go home for the night. But when they checked me, they said, Oh, you’re already three centimeters. We’ll just the induction tomorrow, maybe with misoprostol or something to work on softening the cervix. And so we went home that went back the next morning to start at 7 AM. And my doctor came in and said, why didn’t they do the balloon? You’re only two centimeters. And so there was a little bit of, Oh, we could have started this in a different way.
Kiona 42:39
Right.
Amanda 42:39
but
Kiona 42:39
um,
Amanda 42:40
we still started with miso. And I remember had one dose. And we found out later that the person who had, they did it vaginally instead of orally and they had placed it not quite right. And so it just didn’t do anything. And so, they had to do a couple more rounds, I believe, or maybe only one, I don’t recall. But I remember walking around the unit and having a really strong contraction, especially in my back, which I hadn’t experienced with my oldest. And at that point, I was like, okay, call Katie, let’s do this. Because I was just nervous, I think, about. Things are about to pick up, and they’re suddenly picking up, going from nothing at all to that was a strong contraction. So, that was around that I had that first strong contraction. And then Katie and my best friend Sarah joined us. And I remember we tried to do some pelvic tilts just to try and get her to change positions and kind of drop I didn’t want to try the bath this time. Because I knew I hated their tubs. Worked for me the first time. I still wanted to go
unmedicated And, oh, at this point, sorry, I was on Pitocin now, too. But like a really, really low dose. Because my body just kicked in. was doing its thing. And I loved the rocking chair. I remember being on the rocking chair for a while. And just having my husband right next to me. at one point, I did my whole massive pukey episode,
Kiona 44:15
Mm-hmm.
Amanda 44:15
which I kind of started to feel it has been a sign for me now that I’m in or close to transition.
Kiona 44:22
Yep. That’s what I was going to say.
Amanda 44:24
Yep. Yes. And I remember he had to go to the bathroom at one point. And I was so upset. And I was like gripping his shirt. Like, you cannot go pee. You are person, my comfort. And both Sarah and Katie being like, okay, we can take his place for a second. Like, let him go pee. And so he was doing that and came back. And I was still in that rocking chair. And they tried to get me to move. And I was like, this is where I need to be right now. This is working for And it was at that time that Norah started having some D-cells. And they were kind of playing with the monitors a little bit. I know they shut off my Pitocin because they said, all right, we got to get this under control. You know, she wasn’t a super happy camper at that moment. And this was all shortly after I had thrown up, too. I think at some point they artificially ruptured my membranes. But I have no memory of that. But when she started having those D-cells, they shut off the Pit. They made me get on the bed on all fours. And I remember being checked and them saying I was complete but I didn’t have the urge to push yet. But they said that I had to start pushing because her D-cells were getting – it was either I got her out within the next few pushes, or I had the sense that we were going to go back to the OR for a cesarean. And so this is the part of her birth that I later was able to label as traumatic for me. I feel like I blacked out. I remember being on all fours. I remember them saying I had to start pushing. I don’t any other memory except that there were a ton of people around me. I don’t remember pushing. I know it only took a couple just because of what people told me after. And the next thing I know is she was on my chest, but I was so focused on my doctor that whole time and just kind of watching her expression because she was working with my placenta, and then I saw her face kind of go, uh-oh, and the cord had snapped off. but the placenta was still in, inside. And so she said that she was going to have to go in manually. I had no epidural or anything. And so she had to reach in manually after I just pushed out a baby. And I remember just that was, I was attempting to hold on to Norah on my chest, but other people were helping me because that was so painful to have someone reaching up my vagina to get the placenta out and, you know, not being medicated whatsoever. And just being told, okay, if we don’t get this out, we’re going to have to go back to the OR then to do this. And not obviously wanting that because I wanted that with my And so that was extremely painful, but I don’t have any visual, I don’t have any remembrance of the pushing phase, or even that initial phase of snuggling her, which makes me really sad because there also aren’t pictures. I feel like that part of her birth story for me is the only thing I remember from that time was seeing on my doctor’s face that this was
somewhat serious.Just seeing kind of that, that negative side of what was going on. And then everything was fine. She did get the placenta out. Um, Norah was a little bit smaller than Aila. She was seven, two, but I think she was also maybe 20 inches, 20 and a quarter, something like that. but healthy. I have no idea if the two vessel cord had anything to do with it snapping. I remember seeing it, it looked really thin compared to cords that I’ve now seen um, a bunch I never really asked about that piece, but, her labor. think total was once the contractions actually started maybe three hours but felt fine up until I was doing great up until of course that, that timeframe where I, I can’t remember which makes me sad.
Kiona 48:41
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is very, very challenging to think of, everything was happening and your body’s like, you don’t need to remember this part.
Amanda 48:50
Yeah.
Kiona 48:51
Yeah. Like this is a lot. You don’t need
Amanda 48:54
I know. Yeah. And so it was so strange thinking about, okay, well, I didn’t really have the urge to push with my first because I had an epidural. Oh, I’ll experience what that piece is with my second. Never got to that because I, I just, you’re complete. Nope. We’re pushing now. Get
Kiona 49:09
Mm-hmm.
Amanda 49:10
this baby out.
Kiona 49:11
Right.
Amanda 49:12
yeah, going into my third, it was just like, just a whole, it was a whole different experience too. Yeah.
Kiona 49:18
yeah. We will talk about your third in just a moment, but I do want to touch on your postpartum time with Norah. how was your feeding and how was your mood?
Amanda 49:30
Yes. So my mood right after when I can remember I was so just loved snuggling her. We chose not to have my oldest or anyone else come to the hospital to meet her. We wanted to just like who did with my first, we wanted to have just us as a little bubble, right? Get to know her kind relax into that role, as her parents. because she came out so quickly, she was challenges around showing interest in feeding. on top of latching, too, but. a lot of amniotic fluid that she was constantly working out, At one point they had to stay an extra day because she had spit up a little bit and it was an odd kind of green color or something that they didn’t like and it concerned And so they had the NICU team come in and I remember them putting a little tube down her throat and just trying to you know, work out some extra fluid or something and just kind of check her a bit to make sure nothing was going on internally too, But because of those challenges, I did not get to breastfeed her. You know, we attempted, but I did not get to breastfeed her for the first month. But what we did in the hospital was we were able to access donor milk while we were there. And we did pased bottle feeding with her. And then when we went home, my milk came in so much faster, her being my second. And so I was able to quite a bit for her. I also worked with the hospital lactation consultants. I think we did one or two visits. And it was right around that one month mark that I remember coming home from one of those visits. And I had finally latched her successfully. And that’s where we kind of turned that corner. So I was able to go from exclusively pumping the first month to pretty much just breastfeeding and doing some bottling too with my husband After that initial rocky start, she also did have a tongue tie. And so at her pediatrician office, they clipped it. So that was part of that kind of first month. She had that done along with the work with the lactation consultant where we turned that corner. And then she and I breastfed for 14 and a half months.
Kiona 51:48
Nice,
Amanda 51:48
And the only reason we stopped was we decided to go on a trip to Mexico for our five year anniversary and did not bring the kids.
Kiona 51:55
Right.
Amanda 51:56
And I chose not to pump while we were down there and everything to keep up supply.
Kiona 52:01
Yeah.
Amanda 52:01
Hey,
Kiona 52:02
you know, you
Amanda 52:03
tap
Kiona 52:04
yourself too. So
Amanda 52:05
yes.
Kiona 52:06
yes, Okay. So with Norah, did you use a nipple shield the entire time as well or no?
Amanda 52:15
So I think between both using the shield with Aila and pumping, because I even after Aila weaned at 11 and a half months, I continued to pump for a few more months, not only to supplement with her bottles, but I also was donating to some friends who wanted to give breast milk to their children.
Kiona 52:32
Mm hmm.
Amanda 52:32
And so between those two things, my nipples had changed. they were not as flat. So I was able to latch like it me anatomically anymore. It was stuff going on with her. So did not have to use the shield with her, which was pretty exciting for me.
Kiona 52:48
yeah. I think that’s actually a really great point to mention because, that kind of consistent form of sucking all the time, it will know, stretch your internal anatomy on your nipples to make it to where they just enough or even a little bit more than just enough in order Yes. get a latch on without a and also thinking having the shield with the way that the shield is set for those that have not used a nipple shield. It’s like a clear, thin I call it kind of like a sombrero, you know, like a nipple sombrero. And
Amanda 53:22
yeah,
Kiona 53:22
you kind of just put it over your nipple and your nipple doesn’t fill the entire nipple of the shield. Which is why, people use it is because the nipple of the shields is a little bit more prominent and gives a latchable surface for the baby to latch on to. And then once the baby latches on to that nipple shield nipple, your nipple will be pulled through a little bit further into the hollow nipple of the sheild causing the milk to and then also that protrusion of the nipple to come. So it’s like, basically, a human breast milk flange that’s happening. Yeah. So yeah, that action will definitely bring that nipple forward. I think that’s pretty cool that you didn’t have to use it the second time.
Amanda 54:13
Yes. No, after kind of that first month or so of other issues, I was so beyond excited. That was pretty, I mean, it’s pretty smooth sailing after that which is good.
It’s a new experience for sure.
Kiona 54:24
Yeah, yeah. I think that’s so awesome. Okay, so you nursed Norah for 14 and a half months, You went to Mexico and you enjoyed yourself.
Amanda 54:36
Yes,
Kiona 54:36
And
Amanda 54:36
I
Kiona 54:36
then?
Amanda 54:36
did.
Kiona 54:38
And a couple years later, we have. Haiden.
Amanda 54:43
Yes, he. So he was very planned. It took a lot of convincing initially to have that third baby for my
Kiona 54:52
Oh, tables have turned.
Amanda 54:55
Exactly. I know. Yes. So at this point, I was also a doula. I
changed careers when Norah was I think she was 15 months after having used a doula during my births and was really burnt out in my previous career wanted to be able to take what I loved in that career and direct it towards people that I had so much more interest in working with. So, boy, it was like a whole new world being a doula while in the baby realm and being pregnant because I really felt so much more confidence. And I mean, I was excited, right, going into my pregnancy with Norah, but this was very different I. loved the newborn phase with her and did have some postpartum anxiety with her that came on later, but still loved it. husband has a hard time with her and my husband. I think himself gets some anxiety. especially kind of around sleep challenges and everything like that.
he was okay with two then one day on a hike said, okay, let’s have a third. And I was like, oh, yes. Well, this month. And so I was shocked then going into it with Haiden that it took us six months to get pregnant with him, which was what I had expected when I first tried having a baby back with my oldest.
So, yeah, don’t know. We were tracking and I was taking on, you know, doing the ovulation sticks and on my phone tracking all of that stuff. And I eventually worked with a fertility acupuncturist and that same month conceived Haiden.
Kiona 56:41
Nice. Yeah. I was going to ask how long it took to conceive Haiden because you had some really quick conception periods with your first two. And I I know now as a doula, you hear this all the time, but third babies are absolute wild cards.
Amanda 56:58
Yes.
Kiona 56:59
They are absolute wild cards. They do whatever the heck they want, whenever they want. So tell us what was different about your pregnancy with Haiden.
Amanda 57:09
with him, I was the most sick which was so strange to me because you often hear, oh, you’re really sick with girls. And then myself and all my girlfriends who have boys were sick as dogs with them. So I started feeling really sick the same time, like the six-week window or so. And then I was sick with him all the way up until 20 weeks. But instead of just kind of feeling nauseated 24-7, I did puke multiple which was unfortunate. It was also challenging, too, because we conceived him in February of 2020. And so my whole pregnancy with him was a very different experience mental health-wise too,
because there was not that celebration, right, in person with family and telling them you’re pregnant. I mean, we found out we were pregnant with very shortly after lockdown. And so it was telling everyone over computer and, as anyone who had a baby during that time knows, just a lot less support and everything going into pregnancy, too. So that piece was also really, really different during my pregnancy. I was more proactive, though, about other things. Knowing that I’d had such bad sciatica with both girls, I started working with a chiropractor at 20 weeks with him and worked with her 20 weeks up until a few, maybe a couple months postpartum. So I still had sciatica, but it was a lot less awful. Because of that, I was able to continue working out. I would just have a bowl next to my treadmill and I would be dry heaving sometimes and then continue along my way.
Kiona 58:49
Oh, yeah.
Amanda 58:50
I also proactively decided to have a therapist on board just in case, knowing that in my other postpartum periods, I’d had depression and anxiety. And so I was able to find a therapist where we didn’t meet. Well, we actually we met once prenatally just to kind of introduce each other. And then I was on her schedule a couple weeks or so after my due date. But I had that set up knowing that whenever I’m in mode, as most of us, when you’re depressed and you’re in postpartum you don’t always have the energy or the ability in general to seek out support. And so that was something I wanted to have in place ahead of time, too.
Kiona 59:36
Yeah. I love that you learned a lot from your first and did your best to prep, especially with the world being shut down.
Amanda 59:45
Mm hmm.
Kiona 59:46
that is just another layer on top of your already previously experienced symptoms that you’re kind of prepping to experience again.
Amanda 59:54
Yeah.
Kiona 59:54
and the experience of having to tell your family about pregnancy over like FaceTime or video call or over the phone or the computer, like I do see how that can really be kind of just like a layer of all this sucks on top of everything else.
Amanda 1:00:11
Well, and it was stressful, too, I think because, during that time, I mean, being a doula is such a physical. And so I was sick and I was so embarrassed when there were times where I had to go to the bathroom and puke and then come back and support my client. But then you had that extra layer of we’re in the hospital, right? While I’m also pregnant and that safety component during the pandemic was so stressful too being in an area. You know, my husband was working from home and my kids I was homeschooling them. But I was, as a pregnant person, the one in kind of the thick of those those areas. that could scarier. That could be scarier. Right. When it came coming in contact with people who were sick.
Kiona 1:00:57
Right.
Amanda 1:00:57
So that was kind of an added thing during my pregnancy. It was more I find that I didn’t get to enjoy his pregnancy as much as I did Norah’s because of that, because so much of that focus, as it was for everyone, was just keeping your family safe. that contributed to my postpartum health, I think, afterward, too. And even continuing to this day. He’s four and still like, God, that was, if he’s my last baby that was a really crappy, like. End. End
Kiona 1:01:28
Right.
Amanda 1:01:28
to my pregnancy. Life.
Kiona 1:01:31
Yeah. And I feel like a lot of other people that had. Pregnancies throughout the heightened of the COVID times, those first couple years, they feel similarly, like if it was their last baby, or even experiencing, because a lot of births during COVID were very traumatic for So, you know, having their redemptive births around the years that we’re experiencing now, like 2024, 2025, when people are like in each other’s spaces again, and having less restrictions to exposure and things. so. You going through that as a birth doula who is pregnant yourself, dealing with uncertainties of everything that’s going on with COVID at that know, good for you for being determined. But also, wow, that’s a lot to go through mentally, for sure.
Amanda 1:02:15
Yeah, yeah, it was, especially having some clear signals for my husband that this was what he wanted to be our last.Right . So you’re trying to kind of soak in all of those lasts and everything. Yeah. Outside of that, I think the pregnancy itself, was pretty, pretty smooth with him. I did, though, decide to birth out of hospital with him. Mostly because I felt like I could, I had had that unmedicated birth with my daughter in the hospital setting. And while I loved, absolutely loved my doctor, I wanted that calm setting. I would have done home. My husband wasn’t comfortable. And so we did kind of compromised and it was a birth center near the hospital. But I got to work with midwives for the first time. And that was eye opening to see the difference that I was able to have in my care. like I said, I love my doctor, but it was, it’s, it’s different. It’s just different care. And so I’ll joke around now that, you know, oh, I was just testing everything out, you know, for future clients. Like I had an epidural and I’m a hospital birth and oh, then I had an out of hospital. And,
Kiona 1:03:30
I
Amanda 1:03:32
so that care prenatally though, was really, really wonderful.
Kiona 1:03:38
Yeah, I love that. Especially during COVID times. I just have to.
Amanda 1:03:42
Exactly.
Kiona 1:03:43
Getting that extra, Because in hospital providers have shorter appointment windows, which is really commonly known. And it’s not necessarily a bad thing, but you just have to really learn how to navigate how to work with that. If that’s your birth look. Choice. When it comes to out of hospital providers, most of their appointments are 30 to. 45 minutes plus. Like I, as a student midwife, I was seeing clients for a whole hour and we’re talking about all the things. And so having that time to be able to talk about your concerns and talk about your history and what you wanted to avoid and what you really wanted to try differently. Being able to do that with your midwives is amazing.
Amanda 1:04:27
Yes. And we also wanted to be able make sure I could have the best birth team. And so when he was, his due date was November. 2020. And so that was constantly changing, right? In hospital, who was allowed to be with you? And I wanted this time, I still wanted my doula and of course my husband, but then I also wanted a birth photographer this time. Knowing that this was probably our last, but also how sad I had felt that those moments weren’t really in my memory with Norah. I wanted something physical to look back on with Haiden just in case. And I, even though it may sound like parts of my other births and those experiences. May have been not as enjoyable or, you know, part of one of them was somewhat traumatic. I still felt badass. Like, I love,
Kiona 1:05:21
Yeah.
Amanda 1:05:22
love giving birth. And so I just wanted a picture of me being a badass.
Kiona 1:05:28
Yeah.
Amanda 1:05:29
I, you know, when I’m bringing my kids earth side, I’m like, that’s what I, that’s what I want for myself. And so that wasn’t something I could probably have in the hospital setting either. So those are just more reasons why we chose to have an out-of-hospital birth for our, our third.
Kiona 1:05:44
Yeah. Yeah. Did you, being a doula for clients that were in hospital, kind of help you kind of solidify that decision? Because you’re seeing, like, what birth is like for them during the COVID times at that heightened
Amanda 1:05:56
Yeah, yeah. I mean, so much of it, I look back during that time, and not just the impact on who they could have in the birth space, but also looking at induction rate. I feel like I hardly attended any spontaneous births during, know, 2020 into And I had already had my induction experience. And while not it just wasn’t something I wanted to repeat either. And yeah, that was kind of one of the biggest things I noticed during that time period for my families, specifically.
Kiona 1:06:31
Yeah, think that that makes total sense for that to really kind of, since it’s so present, is you’re taking a front row seat into what it looks like for your clients and to be able to say, actually, I don’t want this. So I think that great, let’s go ahead and dive into the birth with Haiden. How was it different?
Amanda 1:06:51
It was my favorite. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna lie. It was definitely my favorite But quickest. because I had been induced with Norah, just because I was 41 weeks. I wanted to try and avoid an induction because I just didn’t want to have to schedule that and to be on Pitocin and, you know, things that make it sometimes more challenging to And so I told my midwives, whatever we can do to decrease the risk of me needing to have a hospital birth, right? Because if I hit 42 weeks, well, I’m gonna have to go be induced in hospital. I wanted to reduce all of those risks of not being able to have my birth center birth. And so we decided, we came to an agreement to, I think I was, it was my 39-week appointment to do a membrane sweep. And when they checked me, I was already four centimeters and 70% effaced,
Kiona 1:07:48
Nice.
Amanda 1:07:49
which I was like, oh, wow.
Kiona 1:07:51
Yeah.
Amanda 1:07:51
Okay. I feel like this membrane sweep is gonna do some good things. So I had a membrane sweep done. I remember going home that night. And for the next few hours, I thought maybe I was already in early labor, because I was walking around with consistent contractions, breathing through, not breathing through, because they were so uncomfortable. was automatically going back to that birth space. I think it just kind of just breathing. And my husband took the girls to my mom’s thinking, okay, well, if this picks up overnight, we just already want to get them over he brought them over there. But by the time he got home, everything had already fizzled out. I was like, okay, that was just, just what happens sometimes after a membrane sweep. So nothing happened for a couple more days. I, at 39 four, went in for a prenatal massage. That was really nice. That morning in the shower, my mucus plug came out that had also been kind of a sign with my first that things were most likely gonna, I don’t usually tend or like I have this much But in my three births, my mucus plug coming out is not a, oh, this is gonna happen in a week or a few days. It’s been this usually happens same day or within 24 hours. And so it came out that morning, I went and had a prenatal massage. And I remember when I was being massaged, having a couple moments where I go, is that a contraction?
Kiona 1:09:22
Hmm,
Amanda 1:09:22
And then just ignoring And then went home and that night, resting and all of that. And then at
four in the got up to go to the bathroom. And on my way back, just as it happened with Aila, my water broke and I’m leaking. And so we call my mom just to have her come out to the house because we didn’t want to wake the girls up leave in the middle of the night. She came out, I went back to bed, because we had called my midwife and they said, We’ll just see what happens. I mean, as you mentioned earlier, you never know what those third babies are. My midwife said told me this could be another fast labor, but it could also be a really long labor. Third babies are a And so I went back to and probably
an hour later woke up and because I couldn’t sleep anymore. contractions pretty much started right when my water broke at Told my husband things are getting stronger. I think I’m going to jump in the shower. We should probably call my doula and
midwives. We agreed to meet at the birth center
6am. And while I was in the shower, I felt so that sudden just strength of the contractions change and I could feel him get lower. Like that pressure in my butt very suddenly got a lot And so we left the house at, I don’t know, maybe a little before 6am and got to the birth center at like right at 6am. went in there, I declined to be checked I just, you know, I had already been four centimeters at my appointment not long before then and I could just feel that he was low and I didn’t want someone doing a cervical check when I was already uncomfortable. So I declined that and my doula arrived, our photographer arrived. I spent a bit of time just kind of leaning over the bed while they were getting the huge ready. I was so excited about that. I wanted a water birth, especially knowing I’m someone who likes baths and water to begin with. And I didn’t get that in my first births But with this tub being huge, I knew that that would be really fantastic. And so I did my whole pukey Leaning over the bed doing a little bit of slow dancing. I got in the tub. then I wasn’t in there very long, puked a little bit more. And very suddenly started feeling when I would be coping through my contraction, I love to do like long low sounds out and focus on that energy. And during one of them, I turned to my midwives and said, I feel like I need to push, which I had never felt before with Norah, right? I was told when to push before having that sensation. And so I go, do you have to check me? Just, you know, going from hospital births to out of out of hospital, I didn’t know. Okay, do they have to confirm before I start pushing and what was going to happen? And so they said, you know, if you’re feeling like you got to push, go with it. And so I, I pushed and three pushes later, he floating down in the water. And I reached down and with the help of my midwife grabbed him and brought him up to my chest. Oh, and we didn’t know his sex either. this was the first time we did a surprise sex. And so he was a he. and so that was fun to meet who this tiny human was. I just stayed in the tub for a little bit holding him. when it was time to cut his cord, I said that I wanted to do it because my husband got to do it the other two times.
Kiona 1:13:06
Hmm.
Amanda 1:13:07
So I cut his cord And then it was time to get out. And my husband took him and did some skin to skin While I sat on the stool to birth the placenta. And oh my gosh, this is where it was very different from my other unmedicated experience. With Norah, I remember having some postpartum cramping, especially with breastfeeding. I felt like when I delivered the placenta and for the next at least two hours, I felt like I was in active labor again. That whole time. Those contractions, postpartum were. so intense and caught me completely by surprise. I remember I birthed the placenta, and they had me go over to the bed, and I’m laying trying to snuggle Haiden. But I was breathing through these and moaning and could not relax at all through this. And so my husband had to hold And he just snuggled him for a while. And they did I did have tear a little bit. I think with each birth, it was maybe a second each So they did repairs and all that. But that was not something I had ever been aware of. The extreme postpartum contraction pain that you can experience. And so that that’s the only part of that birth that I was disappointed in because I felt like with his, I didn’t quite get that golden, golden hour, or you know, that that special time, because I was in so much pain. I just had that brief moment in the tub right after having him. And then I went right back to what felt like labor for two more hours. which was a bummer, because his birth was, we got to the birth center, and I had him within the next hour. it but tough, tough postpartum.
Kiona 1:15:02
I’m if your midwives used active management for your birth with Haiden. And what I mean by active management is if they gave you Pitocin in the leg or something.
Amanda 1:15:14
No. So, they did not But there was one moment. And of course, they were watching, especially, you know, having had him in the tub and everything and all my bleeding. There was one moment where I remember hearing like a ringing in my ears. And then things got a little dark, but they just had me do some deep breathing. And so then as a doula, I’m laying there going, am I bleeding too much? Like, what is this? And trying not to panic in that
Kiona 1:15:42
Right.
Amanda 1:15:42
moment, too. But they did not It was fine. I think they thought I was hyperventilating a little bit, just with some of action pain still going on and having had And so they did not have to use any Pitocin.
Kiona 1:15:54
Good, good. Yeah. Because I
Amanda 1:15:55
Yeah.
Kiona 1:15:55
was just trying to think like, you know, my doula brain is geeking out over here. And I’m like, Oh, what are your midwives doing? And
Amanda 1:16:01
Yes.
Kiona 1:16:01
so I’m thinking like active management could cause some really intense postpartum contractions as well, especially since you have history of retained placenta, even though it’s kind of
tricky. Because technically, yes, it was a retained placenta, because it didn’t come out with the umbilical cord. But having to go in manually, that is still history. And so as a student midwife brain, I’m like, okay, the midwives that I worked with would likely at least offer this and, you know, have the conversation about how about we talk about active management, and if it’s something you want, and then talk about the parameters of when it becomes necessary versus an Which sounds like your midwives would probably do something along those lines.
Amanda 1:16:41
yeah, we had talked about that a little bit prenatally. Just because of the cord breaking and everything, but
Kiona 1:16:47
Right.
Amanda 1:16:47
it was not something they chose to do afterward, just kind of watching my bleeding and everything.
Kiona 1:16:53
That’s good. Yeah, that’s
Amanda 1:16:54
Yeah.
Kiona 1:16:54
so awesome. I would be so curious to like geek out with like your birth records.
Amanda 1:16:59
Yes. Oh,
Kiona 1:17:00
like what actually happened here? You know,
Amanda 1:17:02
just
Kiona 1:17:03
diving deep in like getting into that, that would be so cool.
Amanda 1:17:05
Yeah.
Kiona 1:17:07
Yes. So that sounds like a beautiful birth experience. How was your postpartum mood and feeding with Haiden?
Amanda 1:17:14
Well, my mood was fine initially like right away. Loved when I was comfortable.
Kiona 1:17:21
Yeah.
Amanda 1:17:21
Loved snuggling and all of that. My feeding journey with got more and more challenging. he was a little bit similar to Norah where he came out with only a couple pushes. he also didn’t get that nice squeeze, like slow squeeze on the way out. And wasn’t super interested. We tried to get him to latch. Wasn’t latching, but not necessarily because he couldn’t in that moment. He was not interested. And this was over an hour after I had him, probably. So it was kind of just, all right, well, I’m going to exclusively pump again. I had also done a lot of prenatal hand expression. So I had a bunch of colostrum at home continued pumping after I had him and brought him home
We, oh, he. There’s, there’s a lot of things. So we did the paste bottle feeding with him. We met with one of my favorite lactation consultants, Catherine Fenner. She came out to our house and worked with us. We tried to do SNS, supplemental nursing system. I found that really frustrating trying to get him to latch over this tube the tube. I felt like constantly kept going out of his mouth and I couldn’t get him to latch over it. She felt like he had some pretty significant ties, along with just being a really, really sleepy baby too, which wasn’t helpful. So we did go have him assessed and he had buckle, tongue, and lip ties. We had those released along with both chiropractic care and we worked with a cranial sacral therapist. And then also continued our work with Catherine. So I was able to successfully start breastfeeding him regularly. I would always practice throughout that while we were exclusively pumping, but I didn’t get to successfully latch and feed him until that, a little after that one month mark too, just like we had with, with Norah. But then after that, we had the best feeding relationship that I’ve had out of all of my kiddos. He. was a horrible sleeper, so that wasn’t fun. He ended up co-sleeping with us for the first, I think, seven months or so before we attempted his crib and then he just was a struggle. But he and I, when it came to nursing, had this beautiful relationship and we nursed until he was almost three and a half years old. So he about a year ago today.
Kiona 1:19:53
Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah.
Amanda 1:19:54
Yeah.
Kiona 1:19:55
And so when you say co-sleeping, do you mean bed sharing? Like when you guys?
Amanda 1:19:58
Yes.
Kiona 1:19:58
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That leads to phenomenal breastfeeding relationships because you could just turn right over and be like, okay, we’re both sleeping while you’re eating. Yeah.
Amanda 1:20:07
I loved that. And it was the only way we could get him to sleep. We could not get that kiddo to go down anywhere at night other than laying right next to me. And he didn’t sleep through the night until he which is what, five hours long or something he didn’t do that until he was at least 15 months old. And then after that, we dealt with up until two or two and a half him doing these weird things I’d never heard of called split nights, I think they’re called, where he would go to sleep. And then he would from maybe two to four a. Or two to three a. Be wide awake in his crib, just happy, but hanging out and being loud to the point where I couldn’t sleep. And so he did that for a long time, too. but now he’s an amazing sleeper.
Kiona 1:20:54
Great. Great. That’s amazing. For your sake as well. Yours and Erich’s sake. Yeah.
Amanda 1:20:59
Yes.
Kiona 1:21:01
Wow. Yeah. So, okay. So you said Haiden had buccal, tongue and lip ties.
Amanda 1:21:07
Lip. Yes.
Kiona 1:21:08
Wow. So for listeners, buccal is cheek. Lip is the frenulum in the front parts of your and tongue ties underneath. So that’s a lot of tightness right there.
Amanda 1:21:20
Yeah.
Kiona 1:21:20
And I’m happy to hear that you said you did cranial sacral
Amanda 1:21:24
help.
Kiona 1:21:24
therapy to
Amanda 1:21:24
Mm hmm.
Kiona 1:21:25
those really tense spots because, oh, that just sounds so tense. When I think of all of those ties, it just makes me feel restriction. Like that’s the word that comes to mind for me is
Amanda 1:21:36
Yes.
Kiona 1:21:36
that’s so intense. So happy that your breastfeeding relationship ended up being really successful three and a half years. That’s amazing.
Amanda 1:21:44
yeah, yeah. And my postpartum experience with him was, I mean, outside of it being during the pandemic, it was definitely a bit challenging Oddly enough, even though I had two girls, when I was pregnant with my second, I had really wanted a boy and then got was sad when she was another girl. But then when I was pregnant with Haiden, I was like, oh, I’ve already had two girls and I have all their fun things. And I can relive those memories. Probably a week after he was born, I remember bawling on the phone to my mom, just so sad. That I’d had a boy, which is
it was so weird to me that you know, that can change or, you know, of course, having those references in the first place, because now I just absolutely love just having my kids in general, right, no matter who they are. And it kind of hit, yes, the depression with him, but the depression itself, for both Norah and Haiden hit closer to the nine month mark, which threw me off a little bit, But, I had some pretty hard anxiety right off with Haiden. To this day, I still, I don’t know what it is, my intrusive thoughts were around stairs. And I
remember my anxiety with him out in his health, which made sense, right, in a pandemic, but it felt extreme. And then as he began to walk, and even as a four year old, there are times where I cannot watch him go downstairs, if I’m behind him. There’s something in my brain that says, oh, he’s gonna fall. And it’s this, you know, something horrible is going to happen. And so that was really bad for me throughout my postpartum experience with him for quite a long time. So it was more, more so just depression with Aila. And then the anxiety shocked me with the second and third.
Kiona 1:23:42
yeah, yeah. Anxiety is no joke. it is no joke.
Amanda 1:23:45
Yeah.
Kiona 1:23:46
And it does usually come out of nowhere. I mean, you know, all anxiety has that sense of like, where’s this coming from? And you have to kind of find the source. But in particular, for me with postpartum anxiety, as well, personally, it’s like, why am I so worried about this? Like, everybody has babies, everybody, like babies are okay.
Amanda 1:24:04
Yes.
Kiona 1:24:04
You know, they have to learn, but like, how much, how much freedom do you give them before you like, let them learn on their own, you know, like this whole process of figuring out the boundaries of what is overpowering or needing to back off. So it’s definitely a challenge. Especially
Amanda 1:24:24
Yes.
Kiona 1:24:24
when like your anxieties come true at a moment, and you’re like, see, this is why I’m worried about all this. Yeah.
Amanda 1:24:31
Yes.
Kiona 1:24:31
So
Amanda 1:24:32
Yeah. Well, and I think we had talked a little bit before jumping on to DMER or DEMER. And so that’s kind of connected to that anxiety piece too, which that’s the dysphoric milk ejection reflex that we talked about. I had that with Norah, where I would go start nursing her and have for the first, like maybe up to five minutes, but usually by the time my milk let down, it would go away, really intense anxiety, just like elephants sitting on your chest, heart racing, and then it would go away. And so I had that already kind of sprinkled in with her. And then all of like no anxiety outside of that until she was probably a little older. And then with Haiden, that anxiety hit earlier. And I remember doing some research because I didn’t know anyone who had experienced DMER before, that you are often more likely to have it with your kids following that experience. And so I was ready to have it with Haiden and shockingly didn’t. But I also just kind of had overarching anxiety in general. So Maybe, m I didn’t notice, but that was just another one of those things that I hadn’t heard of and no one was really talking about much either when it came to kind of that mental health side of, of being with your babies.
Kiona 1:25:50
Yeah. I’m happy that there’s more research being done on mental health, especially in the postpartum time for birthing parents, but also there needs to be more.
Amanda 1:26:00
Oh my gosh.
Kiona 1:26:01
There needs to be so much more. And the focus on postpartum needs to be so much more. because there’s so, so, so, so
many times when people say, oh, it’s because you just had a baby. It’s just because it’s normal because you just had a baby. Everybody goes through this because you just had a baby, but it’s like really, no, I feel off. I don’t feel good. This isn’t healthy. Like I don’t want to sit here and have anxiety and not be able to sleep when my kid is sleeping and staring at them every single like five minutes to make sure they’re still breathing. anxiety postpartum is intense and people absolutely need to have support in that. I highly encourage and support therapy, even if you don’t think you got something going on because everybody has something that they can work through, whether it’s related to pregnancy or not, because how you were raised truly impacts how raise your kids. So yeah. I appreciate you bringing that up because I hadn’t really heard of it prior to reading it on your guest request form. I was like DMER, DMER. I’m like used to reading, EMDR
Amanda 1:27:08
Oh,
Kiona 1:27:08
for
Amanda 1:27:08
yes.
Kiona 1:27:08
like, you
Amanda 1:27:09
Yeah.
Kiona 1:27:09
know, and I’m like, wait, hang on. What is this? So, it is the dysphoric milk ejection reflex. I will absolutely have a link to a definition of that for listeners to refer to and like kind of do some research with if you guys are curious about that in the show notes on the website. So keep your eyes out for that. So Amanda, this has been so informative and I love talking to other birth workers, but I also love talking just to you about these stories because I can just feel how transitional each of these were for you.
Amanda 1:27:45
Yes. Huge. So such huge differences but each one of them, like I said, I love giving birth. Don’t necessarily like being pregnant, but I loved all of the very different experiences that I went through with them.
Kiona 1:27:59
Yeah. I’m like you as well. I love giving birth. I am done having my own kiddos, but I’m kind of planting a seed. I might be a surrogate one day. We’ll see. I have no idea. That would be cool. I got to talk to some people to see those that have been surrogates before. So we’ll see. But I would love to ask you my three final closing questions. How do you
Amanda 1:28:19
Yeah.
Kiona 1:28:19
feel?
Amanda 1:28:20
Yes. We’d love to
Kiona 1:28:21
Awesome. Okay. So my first question is what is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people to prepare for labor, birth and postpartum?
Amanda 1:28:30
so, when I was thinking about this, I think one of the biggest pieces that was reflected throughout all of my experiences were my team and specifically my team that best fits my personal hopes and preferences for my births. Right. And so that can look different for every person. Um, because there were certain things that were really important to me for my experiences. And when I say team, I also think of the hospital itself too. and so if I want, and I talk about this with families, if I have hopes for a really supported, you know, highly medical setting me feel really comfortable, then I would seek out a hospital that’s known for that. Or for myself, it I’m hoping for little interventions and, you know, unmedicated, where am I going to go that’s best going to support that and make me feel safest in those, in those And so it’s the hospital. And also, you know, if it’s a doula or partner, whoever. So that’s my biggest piece is just find your people. Find your people who are going to be the best.
Kiona 1:29:39
Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly, because when you have your support team around you, and when you choose the providers that fit what it is that you’re hoping for, you have a higher chance of getting what you hope for,
Amanda 1:29:52
Yes.
Kiona 1:29:53
to the best of their ability, your ability, because team means that your
Amanda 1:29:57
Mm
Kiona 1:29:57
team,
Amanda 1:29:58
hmm.
Kiona 1:29:58
you talk, you communicate, you come up with realistic hopes, realistic goals. And you, you know, you adjust your preferences when necessary. But when you have that team behind you, that’s willing to give you that extra oomph, when you’re doubting yourself, or that’s willing to be honest with you when something that you wanted is no longer capable or available. Then you have that discussion and then you trust their input and you trust their view on what the end result would be and how keep you safe. So,
Amanda 1:30:27
Yeah.
Kiona 1:30:27
yes.
Amanda 1:30:27
And it’s that same for postpartum, right? It’s that that
Kiona 1:30:30
Right.
Amanda 1:30:30
team who’s going to be not just a baby holder.
Kiona 1:30:34
Correct.
Amanda 1:30:34
Don’t want. I mean, you can have a baby holder, right? But it’s who’s going to be there supporting your goals postpartum, holding your hand, encouraging you to seek support when needed, all of that.
Kiona 1:30:46
Validate. Emotions.
Amanda 1:30:47
Yes. It’s huge.
Kiona 1:30:50
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. You got to have the right people around you.
Amanda 1:30:53
Yeah.
Kiona 1:30:54
Yes. So my next question is, what is one resource that I can share with my listeners on your behalf?
Amanda 1:31:02
Yes. So I feel that mental health, both prenatally and postpartum, has been kind of big in all of my stories. And so just thinking back to the resource that was provided me going into wanting to find a therapist prenatally with Haiden. My one of my other best friends is a school counselor. And she told me about psychology today. And it was a website that you can go to plug where you’re located, you know, what your insurance is, what kind of therapist you’re interested in, anything like that. And it would pop up with, you know, a list. And I remember just going through it, reading bios, emailing people, essentially dating, right? You’ve got to you’ve got to find the people that you probably will jive with. And so that was how I found my therapist that I used. And I thought that was really great because it wasn’t just local to our area. It’s any of, you know, anyone listening that can seek a therapist in their specific area, too.
Kiona 1:32:05
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Psychology Today is an amazing resource. And they do have a really great filter of setup to narrow down the kind of support that you need. Like, there’s, sexuality specifics there. Insurance specifics, as well as like postpartum or trauma or family support or teen or adult adolescence, like all of those filters are in there. And I just think that that’s so amazing, because when you really niche it down, you can really come into contact with some really awesome people. And don’t be afraid to date around, because
Amanda 1:32:38
Yes.
Kiona 1:32:39
once you start opening up to someone, you don’t want to be like having to break up with them. You know, that’s really So don’t be afraid to date around get someone that really gives you the support that you need. Yeah. So great resource. Thank you.
Amanda 1:32:50
Mm hmm.
Kiona 1:32:52
Now, my last question is, if you can describe each of your births with one word, what would it
Amanda 1:32:57
Mm hmm.
Kiona 1:32:57
be?
Amanda 1:32:58
For me, it’s empowering.
Kiona 1:33:00
Yeah.
Amanda 1:33:01
Just all of them, right? They’re all very, very different. But I felt so empowered in my decisions, but also my body.
Kiona 1:33:09
Mm hmm.
Amanda 1:33:10
Everything that I was capable of, right? You discover a new part of yourself going through that process of giving birth. So very empowering for all three.
Kiona 1:33:20
Yes. I love it. I love it so much. And I’m just going to touch on how in your third birth, you said you had a birth photographer and you wanted to really capture your badassery, right?
Amanda 1:33:30
Yes. Yes.
Kiona 1:33:31
That is what I did for my third birth as well. And so the cover of this podcast is also me in labor. So it’s like that badass moment when I was going through contraction. I was like, yes, I want to remember this. And it’s so raw. It’s so real. And every single time I look at the pictures from that birth, I’m like, I can remember exactly how I in those moments. And then you’re like, I did
Amanda 1:33:53
Like,
Kiona 1:33:53
it.
Amanda 1:33:53
yeah,
Kiona 1:33:54
I did it. So cool, you know? So yeah, I can connect with you on that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Amanda, thank you so much. I’m so excited. And everybody’s going to love this episode. I already know.
Amanda 1:34:08
Well, it was an honor. I’ve been pretty excited to be able to chat on here, having listened to a whole bunch of your episodes before and loving able to connect with other stories So it was important for me to also make sure people can connect with anything in my stories, too.
Kiona 1:34:21
Yes, yes, absolutely. I love that. I love that. Thank you so
Outro 1:34:37
Speaking to Amanda throughout this episode was so refreshing. And what I mean by that is that Amanda is truly so human. And she really brought out the fact that people have different reactions to pregnancies, as well as births, and just how they feel, I feel like Amanda did a really amazing job at finding really positive things in each of her births, as well as identifying the things that were traumatic or challenging for her. I also love how in-depth she went into her postpartum feeding experience, because there’s so many things that people assume are easy, and Amanda had challenges every single time. But she got through them, and she had amazing breastfeeding experiences with all of her babies. And for her to breastfeed Haiden for three and a half years, that is so amazing. Amanda, I want to say a big, huge thank you to you for sharing your stories and being vulnerable with us, and for putting your stories out there for people to hear. I know that there are listeners out there right now that can relate to the stories that you just told. So thank you. Now for you listeners, if you liked this episode, I would also tune in to episode 58 with Kayla Tschumper, who is another birth worker and a mother of three. She talks about how her three stories are very different and how it shaped how she became a birth worker. Now to look at definitions, as well as get all of the show notes for this episode, you can to
birthasweknowitpodcast.com /85. And if you know someone or are someone that is looking for some birth support, please reach out. You can go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com forward slash services. I can help as a birth doula, postpartum doula, as well as give some little educational sessions on labor prep from a doula perspective. All right, friends, thanks for tuning in and I will talk to you again soon.
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